Is length of relationship a sign of a good relationship?

GobbledyGook

Toucan_Pecan wrote: »

But I wonder if she is terrified he will leave her if she does this....?

Nobody who doesn't know her could even begin to speculate on that. For all we know she might be perfectly happy, equally she could resent it massively.

Only she knows. If they don't talk to each other then nothing will change.

BigAunty

Toucan_Pecan wrote: »

Oh and I think he might do the dishes but has never bought anyone a birthday card or present before in his life... he doesn't believe in doing that.

To be honest, that just sounds like stinginess and selfishness rather than a valid principled stance. What's his relationship like with his family and her family, seeing as he appears to have a very small social circle?

The financially reckless ex-friend that I outlined was chronically stingy and chronically scrounging. She enjoyed long holidays to long-haul destinations every year while pleading poverty, generally never buying a round of drinks and generating lots of pity stories that ensured people decorated, repaired and furnished her flat, fixed her car and PC, and regularly paid her debts.

She was queen of the sob story, despite the fact that her terrible relationship with her colleagues and boyfriend was generally caused by her laziness, tardiness and failure to take responsibility.

When I had it out with her (reminding her that I paid for a decorator to fix up her room and gifted her curtains so she could get the lodger she said she needed to prevent sliding into debt, one that she never bothered to find, and then jetted off to see the Great Wall of China despite being too broke to sort out her spare room), it was clear her sense of entitlement was very deep.

Her response was along the lines of 'I deserve it. Friends ought to help out their mates. This holiday is unmissable'. Not an ounce of regret but an extremely aggressive, highly defensive dismissal of why she deserved a subsidised lifestyle.

I have never seen her as angry as the time when I challenged why she had such a hectic social life and travel schedule when she said she couldn't meet her basic bills. She actually pretty much went bezerk, totally ballistic. She even demanded some days later that I ought to hear her side of the story and that I didn't allow her to sufficiently 'defend' herself from my 'insults'.

If you push his buttons by asking quite ordinary questions that deep down he knows he can't justify, then you might see this level of aggression.

Toucan_Pecan

BigAunty wrote: »

To be honest, that just sounds like stinginess and selfishness rather than a valid principled stance. What's his relationship like with his family and her family, seeing as he appears to have a very small social circle?

The financially reckless ex-friend that I outlined was chronically stingy and chronically scrounging. She enjoyed long holidays to long-haul destinations every year while pleading poverty, generally never buying a round of drinks and generating lots of pity stories that ensured people decorated, repaired and furnished her flat, fixed her car and PC, and regularly paid her debts.

She was queen of the sob story, despite the fact that her terrible relationship with her colleagues and boyfriend was generally caused by her laziness, tardiness and failure to take responsibility.

When I had it out with her (reminding her that I paid for a decorator to fix up her room and gifted her curtains so she could get the lodger she said she needed to prevent sliding into debt, one that she never bothered to find, and then jetted off to see the Great Wall of China despite being too broke to sort out her spare room), it was clear her sense of entitlement was very deep.

Her response was along the lines of 'I deserve it. Friends ought to help out their mates. This holiday is unmissable'. Not an ounce of regret but an extremely aggressive, highly defensive dismissal of why she deserved a subsidised lifestyle.

I have never seen her as angry as the time when I challenged why she had such a hectic social life and travel schedule when she said she couldn't meet her basic bills. She actually pretty much went bezerk, totally ballistic. She even demanded some days later that I ought to hear her side of the story and that I didn't allow her to sufficiently 'defend' herself from my 'insults'.

If you push his buttons by asking quite ordinary questions that deep down he knows he can't justify, then you might see this level of aggression.

Oh gosh! That dramatic! The thing is he, doesn't ask for anything explicitly from people, they kind of give him things because he seems to be suffering or will miss out (e.g., booze if he goes to his brother's house). He stays at home a lot I think in part to avoid paying for public transport. I think he's fundamentally trying to avoid work and I suppose people?! Sometimes he claims he has nothing in common and he is an outcast, but I think he could definitely make friends if he was a bit less self-focused...

BigAunty

GobbledyGook wrote: »

If within a couple they are happy for one person to work and one to take on the household responsibilities why should they feel the need to cite studying or health issues to make their lifestyle choices acceptable.

In this thread, it appears that neither the OPs friend nor his partner are actually happy and that his absence from employment is potentially one reason why his self-esteem, social circle and confidence is low - reading and working out regularly will not feel a void like a 35 hour week commitment to a job.

On the one hand, he is happy to be in what is regarded as a more female role as a house husband but on the other, he appears to be ashamed of it, so he's not actually getting much joy there due to that conflict. He self limits his social contact because he is embarrassed to be funded by his girlfriend.

If the girlfriend is aware of how employment averse he is, then she's hardly going to make a stand if she thinks it will affect their relationship anymore, if what the OP writes is correct about her being miserable in the relationship too, but not sufficiently galvanised to end it.

I wonder what she would make of her partner's wish (or rather expectation) to remain living in her property when the relationship ends?! I mean, that is a simply bizarre and barmy scenario right there, even leaving aside the double standards about housewife/house husband issue and whether or not it is right to be voluntarily unemployed.

BigAunty

Toucan_Pecan wrote: »

Oh gosh! That dramatic! The thing is he, doesn't ask for anything explicitly from people, they kind of give him things because he seems to be suffering or will miss out (e.g., booze if he goes to his brother's house). ...

My friend never explicitly ask for social expenses to be picked up - she never demanded drinks were bought, taxis and tickets were paid for, it was merely the done thing for those in employment to routinely fund her and of course, she was thankful for her treats. She may say something like 'oh, I'd love to come and see that show that you've invited me to but I'm broke at the moment', never 'buy me a ticket'.

However, when I thought back, even when she was in employment and her lodger funded her household bills, she rarely stepped up to the bar to buy drinks, nor did she ever really help out her friends to even the tiniest degree if she could get away with it, wasn't much of a gift giver.

For example, after masses of help and gifts and support, I asked her for a couple of small favours and she acted like I was asking for the moon, and then she sabotaged them, one by doing it really badly so she was never asked again (cat sitting, locking them in one small room and then demanding I pay for a nylon rug to be dry cleaned due to their hari) and another by handing it over to someone else to do (collecting balloons for a secret birthday party when I couldn't manage the pick up myself).

For things like people paying to decorate, furnish and repair her flat, she just had a winning way of flattering people into doing it 'oh, you are so good at DIY, using computers' etc or coming out with a sob story that people pretty much flung themselves into being her PA/driver/handyman.

To show you how successful she was at her learned helplessness act, I once found her sitting in the dark in her kitchen, where she freely admitted the bulb had blown many months ago. Like a fool, I later found myself shunning up a ladder and changing it without demurring.

She was in a league of her own for turning all her friends and relatives into walking cash dispensers and personal shoppers so I very much doubt your friend comes close to that degree of conniving.

Perhaps his demeanour is enough to inspire people around him to be generous and feeling that his lack of employment (albeit self inflicted) means he is due this level of support?

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Maybe the bodybuilding is a way to make an unemployed, unmotivated leech appear more attractive to a replacement [strike]mug[/strike] woman?


He's probably taken her last chances for children by being there and using her as a convenient stopgap until the better offer comes along. That's cruel.


It sounds very controlling. He doesn't work and contribute to the home, ten minutes washing up and buying some protein powder doesn't count. If he won't go out with her, she's trapped indoors only giving him attention or has to go out without him, unable to meet somebody better because there's somebody at home. And if she starts saying she expects more, I bet that's when he starts with the 'you've got 3 months or I'm out of here' stuff.


I remember the 'I don't want to work, so you can't make me' declarations. And the 'I'm not going out. I want to stay at home' ones. But if he did go out, oh boy, did he get drunk or get really stroppy and make it so unpleasant, it would put me off going again, especially as I was so embarrassed about it happening in front of people who became my friends.

If he left her, there's a slight chance that she might meet somebody who took responsibility for his own destiny and she could have a child. But it's more convenient for him to stay and his desire for somebody to look after him and his needs is more important to him than her needs and dreams.


He's being selfish and cruel. And deserves to be alone in a grotty bedsit on benefits, where he can please himself without hurting anybody else.

Toucan_Pecan

BigAunty wrote: »

My friend never explicitly ask for social expenses to be picked up - she never demanded drinks were bought, taxis and tickets were paid for, it was merely the done thing for those in employment to routinely fund her and of course, she was thankful for her treats. She may say something like 'oh, I'd love to come and see that show that you've invited me to but I'm broke at the moment', never 'buy me a ticket'.

However, when I thought back, even when she was in employment and her lodger funded her household bills, she rarely stepped up to the bar to buy drinks, nor did she ever really help out her friends to even the tiniest degree if she could get away with it, wasn't much of a gift giver.

For example, after masses of help and gifts and support, I asked her for a couple of small favours and she acted like I was asking for the moon, and then she sabotaged them, one by doing it really badly so she was never asked again (cat sitting, locking them in one small room and then demanding I pay for a nylon rug to be dry cleaned due to their hari) and another by handing it over to someone else to do (collecting balloons for a secret birthday party when I couldn't manage the pick up myself).

For things like people paying to decorate, furnish and repair her flat, she just had a winning way of flattering people into doing it 'oh, you are so good at DIY, using computers' etc or coming out with a sob story that people pretty much flung themselves into being her PA/driver/handyman.

To show you how successful she was at her learned helplessness act, I once found her sitting in the dark in her kitchen, where she freely admitted the bulb had blown many months ago. Like a fool, I later found myself shunning up a ladder and changing it without demurring.

She was in a league of her own for turning all her friends and relatives into walking cash dispensers and personal shoppers so I very much doubt your friend comes close to that degree of conniving.

Perhaps his demeanour is enough to inspire people around him to be generous and feeling that his lack of employment (albeit self inflicted) means he is due this level of support?

Yes, I see.... He comes across as fiercely independent actually but people who care for him do help him. He is an extremely quiet man who comes across as good listener, dignified and ethical, but I feel a bit dubious because I wonder if he is using us in small cumulative ways now!! As you mentioned with your friend, he would never ever pay for someone else's drink... but allow someone to pay for his.

Morglin

Toucan_Pecan wrote: »

I had a bit of a heated debate with someone recently who is miserable in his relationship with his girlfriend. When I questioned why they were still together he told me that they 'just are' and that every time he has suggested to her that they split within 6 months or creates a timeline for leaving (which I think is a bit strange as they aren't even financially entangled) she starts to get upset and he stays, or when she might suggest that it isn't working he decides it isn't time for him to leave the relationship. This person has disclosed to me that he feels life is pointless and that being in a relationship with anyone would 'be the same'. He doesn't socialize or work so his girlfriend really is the only person he talks to. Anyway, I remarked to him that maybe it's time to think about getting a job and *perhaps* evaluating whether to stay with this woman as she wants children and he doesn't... Anyway, he had a rant at me that I didn't know the value of a long-term relationship and it's taught him many important things about women and I couldn't possibly understand the value of said LTR because I had never been in one!

Now, I understand that staying together for years with someone can be a sign of a healthy relationship, but beyond that I'm dubious that it proves anything other than perhaps two people are remaining with each other because they are scared to take a chance on life and start afresh. Is this an offensive or wrong point of view? It was quite a heated argument so I'm not sure if I'm just naive or he is in absolute denial...?!

A long marriage (30 years) proved nothing in my case, other than I lacked the courage or the ambition to end it lol (it's actually quite hard to end a relationship when no one has been abusive or anything).

Finally, I plucked up the courage, found the ambition, and left the marriage, and then filed for divorce.

Never regretted a thing......:T

Lin

BigAunty

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

It sounds very controlling. ..


I remember the 'I don't want to work, so you can't make me' declarations. And the 'I'm not going out. I want to stay at home' ones. But if he did go out, oh boy, did he get drunk or get really stroppy and make it so unpleasant, it would put me off going again, especially as I was so embarrassed about it happening in front of people who became my friends.

.

I know there is a 'my GF won't contribute to the rent' thread on this forum, but what I've noticed on this forum and the debt free wanabee one is the amount of female partners who feel financially exploited by their male partner, who won't help out around the house and who prioritises their interests over social/family commitments, that they have an almost parallel but separate life, funded by their partner, wholly resistent to changing it when challenged.

There seems to be a lot of women out there who are essentially housing drifters and dossers, some shunning basic responsibilities that come with being a partner, housemate or father and lacking in reciprocity. At their heart, there is a power imbalance or sense of lifestyle entitlement.

Toucan_Pecan

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Maybe the bodybuilding is a way to make an unemployed, unmotivated leech appear more attractive to a replacement [strike]mug[/strike] woman?


He's probably taken her last chances for children by being there and using her as a convenient stopgap until the better offer comes along. That's cruel.


It sounds very controlling. He doesn't work and contribute to the home, ten minutes washing up and buying some protein powder doesn't count. If he won't go out with her, she's trapped indoors only giving him attention or has to go out without him, unable to meet somebody better because there's somebody at home. And if she starts saying she expects more, I bet that's when he starts with the 'you've got 3 months or I'm out of here' stuff.


I remember the 'I don't want to work, so you can't make me' declarations. And the 'I'm not going out. I want to stay at home' ones. But if he did go out, oh boy, did he get drunk or get really stroppy and make it so unpleasant, it would put me off going again, especially as I was so embarrassed about it happening in front of people who became my friends.

If he left her, there's a slight chance that she might meet somebody who took responsibility for his own destiny and she could have a child. But it's more convenient for him to stay and his desire for somebody to look after him and his needs is more important to him than her needs and dreams.


He's being selfish and cruel. And deserves to be alone in a grotty bedsit on benefits, where he can please himself without hurting anybody else.

My gosh! that's harsh... I mean I do think it's mean to stay with a woman who wants your child and you live there indefinitely knowing that her biological clock is ticking, but I wonder why she is in no way motivated to leave...? It may be that she really loves him and is willing to forgo having children to stay with him (maybe it is more attractive to stay with someone who doesn't say they love you because if you do finally win him over.. wow it would feel like you're really valuable?). She does have an autoimmune disease and I mentioned that means she is long term medication. Maybe she is worried of starting all over again and running the risk of being rejected... but as I said he is so damn miserable with his constricted life!