Only freedom will do

Karmacat

As a nation, yes, personally - no. I learn whatever bits of language I can get my mitts on, including Polish when I was visiting in London to make the Poles also visiting feel welcome.

ETA - in relation to the big picture - sadly, there's also the historical British imperial past, added to by American ubiquity today, which means that English/American is the lingua franca, the Latin of our days.

Goldiegirl

There always has been immigration in this country, throughout the centuraries. It's not a new thing.

Immigrants often do the jobs that the resident Brits don't want to do, so some level of immigration is an essential.

As long as an immigrant can support themselves and their families, I'm generally supportive. But on the other hand, I do worry that we are a small island - how many more people can we cope with.

Unfortunately, I think there can be some level of racism when it comes to immigration. I went on a coach trip a few weeks ago, and some of the (older) people on the coach were having a rant about people coming' over here 'from places like Poland, and I found some of their attitudes very uncomfortable and unpleasant.

elantan

Oh Goldie some of the crackers I meet in my line of work, often the younger generation are slated ... but I rarely hear racism coming from them, the elderly though ... in a room of 6 I will easily hear 4 of them making racist remarks ... it's hard to bite my lip sometimes

edinburgher

Immigrants often do the jobs that the resident Brits don't want to do, so some level of immigration is an essential.

I have often heard this, but I am wondering if it's a positive discrimination cliche.

Oh God, I sound like such a tabloid believing grump tonight!

AlexLK

I'm torn about whether to vote in or out based on potential regulations Europe could bring to the UK for classic car ownership (potential restrictions on driving them) as well as what leaving the EU could potentially do to British farming and academic research. I don't think anyone really knows what potential impact either leaving or staying has on the economy in the long term.

Regarding immigration, I can't say it has an impact on my day to day life. Where I live and the two large towns nearby I haven't come into contact with anyone that doesn't speak English. I understand there are parts of the country, mainly in cities, where there are immigrants unwilling to integrate into the wider community. However, I'm quite sure most entering the country wish to start a new life and try to integrate with the local culture. My father's grandparents came from Ireland and I think most other people in the UK have ancestors from elsewhere in the world. Therefore, I find some of the "control immigration" arguments somewhat distasteful.

gallygirl

edinburgher wrote: »

So I'm torn. On the one hand = people definitely have a right to peace of mind and stability. On the other hand = we fear what's different and some people appear to have no interest in becoming any less 'different', which doesn't help the fear.

Unless I'm a total xenophobe, I strongly suspect that this is how a lot of people feel.

Yup, that about sums it up. The level of intellect between those pontificating the benefits of leaving is shocking (and seems to be related to the volume they speak at as well!). Next to us last night was a man going on about the European Court of Human Rights and why that was reason enough to leave the EU. Em, not exactly matey, the ECHR has nothing to do with the EU, you uneducated, stupid bigot :wall::wall::wall:.

It's an interesting debate - and I think we (as a nation) are often a little hypocritical. We have thousands of British expats living in Spain - how many of those speak Spanish? My parents have a holiday home in Spain and the Brits that actually live there pretty much live a British life albeit with better weather - there is little or no integration with the locals.

Don't get me started :mad:. The number of Brits I've overheard recently moaning about 'them' coming over 'here' (they seem to forget they are in Spain, not in the UK!) and not speaking the language makes my blood boil as you can almost guarantee that they don't even try to speak Spanish :mad:. I've been here a year and am probably in the top 5% when it comes to fluency in Spanish. Unfortunately that's not a reflection on my wonderful linguistic ability :rotfl:. There are people who've been here for 15 years and still can't read a fairly basic menu :eek:.

AlexLK wrote: »

My father's grandparents came from Ireland and I think most other people in the UK have ancestors from elsewhere in the world. Therefore, I find some of the "control immigration" arguments somewhat distasteful.

Completely agree. Most of us have 'foreign' blood in us.

The Eastern Europeans where I used to live came over en masse and took on as many jobs as they could and yes, sent money back to their homelands. They lived maybe six or seven to a house and didn't integrate. But over the space of five years or so they've learnt the language, brought partners over or met local women/men and started families. The town I was in was odd in that there were lots of Scots and Irish so the school photos in the paper were all Mac, Mc and O's , now it's all Z's W's and Y's :rotfl:. I have to say my experience of immigration has been positive.

LadyGnome

Ed
You should try living in a house where people are speaking another language:D Mr Gnome is North African so he and the boys speak Arabic in the house, (I am British with some Irish ancestry) . I've picked up a bit over the years. I think integration is the key, when communities remain separate there can't be mutual understanding. We live in a diverse bit of London where people do mix well so you don't get the sense of groups being "other". All of Mr Gnome's friends speak fluent English (often as their 3rd or 4th language) so can join in very British pursuits like arguing with the gas & electricity company over the bill (MrGnome's current hobby) and harrumphing at the TV when politicians are on.

Karmacat

Ooh, LadyGnome, I've done that for a little while - I lived in a house share where everyone else was Chilean (mostly refugees, but some temporary economic migrants) and not all of them were bilingual yet - it was fascinating being the minority speaker. I loved listening, and watching people.

One of the most interesting of those from this point of view was a sailor whose ship had docked in London and was visiting - he was Chilean, but ethnically he was black, because his dad had been a black sailor from Liverpool! We locked eyes across the linguistic gulf, as he'd been told I was from Liverpool ... it was weird. In a good way!

LadyGnome

KC
It's amazing how communication styles differ between cultures. You don't realise how your way of interacting with people is so strongly shaped by where you live and what language you speak until you are in a situation where others do it differently. I remember watching MrGnome in conversation with one of his elderly aunts when we were visiting his home country. She appeared to be lecturing him and was hitting him on the chest to emphasise her point (as only little old ladies can;)). In fact, she was being complementary to him and was reinforcing the nice comments. From a native British perspective it looked like a totally different interaction from the reality.

edinburgher

We locked eyes across the linguistic gulf, as he'd been told I was from Liverpool ... it was weird. In a good way!

Haha - I nominate KC for the literary award that authors win for clunky erotic descriptions (I forget the name) :rotfl: