Daughter given wrong information by private landlord

penguingirl

Wow, what a mess.

OP you seem pretty decided that your daughter should pay the bills for the sake of the security of her tenancy. Is she in a fixed term contract at the moment? If she wants security she should ask for one- it would be awful for her to clear the account (or even just get her name on it) and then receive a s21 at some point anyway. Although it's worth checking out whether her deposit is protected as this LL sounds a bit of a cowboy (if it's not a s21 would be invalid anyway)

Also maybe this should be a lesson to her (and you!) in terms of making sure everything is in writing. A verbal contract is valid, but as you have experienced, is hard to prove. Although, as others have said, I think that the text messages could prove it for your daughter and you have accepted this payment very easily! I hope your daughter is aware that contractually this is not her debt to pay, but you have decided it is the best option (she is an adult, she has the right to make her own financial decisions). I think I would have been mindful in your position to negotiate the payment with the LL in return for a new fixed term e.g. each pay half, but she gets security

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

Crivens, I've seen it all. Assuming all is truthful here:

1) Tenant moves in, having agreed with LL that LL is responsible for bills.
2) LL realises liability, changes mind.
3) Tenant pays for LL's !!!! up.

On what planet is this in any way a good result for the daughter?

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

hardworking_mummy wrote: »

How is that? My tenants move into their properties at the beginning of the tenancy agreement. I do not chase them up to ensure they have put the gas and electricity in their name. It is none of my business. I have been approached by utility companies re arrears after tenants have left. I simply send in a copy of the tenancy agreement showing when the tenancy was in place and they pursue the tenants for any outstanding monies. I have had a tenant who did not register water/tv licence/ gas or electricity. The only bill she paid in a year of living at the property was her Council Tax I was not responsible for any of it.

I'm sure if it got as far as court - the landlord could produce a copy of the tenancy agreement showing the tenants period of liability. I'm sure the tenancy agreement is silent on bills. It would be up to the judge to decide whether a text message stating they had thought it did include the bills but then realised it didn't is enough to make the landlord liable. If it was from an unregistered phone the landlord could argue the tenant had a friend send it to her!

It might save the tenant £1000 for gas and electricty she used. It might cost her an awful lot more in addition. Only the OP and her daugher can make the decision they feel is best for them.

I'm assuming you don't promise your tenants you're going to pay the bill, which is the key to this whole debacle.

nids

OP - I have an outstanding bill to pay, reckon EDF could add it to your daughter's repayments for me, please?

topdaddy_2

OP :Foolish to pay. Very foolish to ask for advice, get it, ignore it and then not expect criticism.

outofmoney

So, putting aside who is/isn't responsible. If the LL made a mistake, is he going to pay back a portion of the rent paid each month since the tenant was paying for bills inclusive and now it turns out she has to pay them separately? If not, is he now going to reduce the rent?

Personally, if I took on a tenancy that included bills I would expect it to be a little higher than the average. Surely this was the case here?

polarization

In all my previous contracts, they all included what bills are included and what is my responsibilities.

I am not saying who is right or who is wrong and I don't want to start any argument.

OP chose to settle the case by paying the bills, I think it is based on getting rid of the stress and hassle to argue with the LL. Since there is nothing stated in the contract or in writting, it may go to the court to decide eventually if both parties don't agree with each other. The stress may not be bearable for everyone as you have to prepare all the supporting documents.

It depends on what outcome the OP and her daughter would like to see and who has stronger bargain power. If the OP's daughter cannot afford the expenses to move to another place, it may be the best decision. If it goes to court, no matter you win or lose, it is difficult to continue to rent the place. If you lose, you will have to bear the cost, which makes life even harder. I found it hard to accept but sometimes reality makes you compromise.

It may sounds unfair to some people or some may feel angry as OP chose to pay the bills. If the outcome is what they want, we can only tell what we will do if we are in the same situation but not to jugde the OP's decision.

It is expensive to learn it this way but make sure everything is in writing when come to contract in the future.

NouZid

polarization wrote: »

It may sounds unfair to some people or some may feel angry as OP chose to pay the bills. If the outcome is what they want, we can only tell what we will do if we are in the same situation but not to jugde the OP's decision.

I think what most people on here are criticising is the fact that OP came here to enquire about who is responsible/liable for these bills, presumably to ascertain if her daughter has to pay them or leave that responsibility to the LL. She then went and accepted to pay for the bills anyway. I too would be aggrieved if someone asked for my advice then seemingly ignored it or did the opposite; what's the point of asking for advice in this situation?

Kynthia

It's arrogant to assume someone should follow your advice just because they asked for it. Many of us in life ask for advice, perhaps in multiple places, then take all that information and make the best decision we can think of.

The OP's daughter has to pay the utility companies as she has an implied contract with them, ie she is living in the property using the gas and electric. The utility companies have no contract with the landlord so they cannot make him pay even if she had it in her written AST that she was not responsible, so they will chase the tenant. She then has the right to take the landlord to court for the monies she has paid. However would she win without written proof of the agreement, and what are the consequences or winning or losing? Therefore the decision to sue is not necessarily just based on right and wrong and is for the OP's daughter to decide.

topdaddy_2

Kynthia wrote: »

It's arrogant to assume someone should follow your advice just because they asked for it. Many of us in life ask for advice, perhaps in multiple places, then take all that information and make the best decision we can think of.

The OP's daughter has to pay the utility companies as she has an implied contract with them, ie she is living in the property using the gas and electric. The utility companies have no contract with the landlord so they cannot make him pay even if she had it in her written AST that she was not responsible, so they will chase the tenant. She then has the right to take the landlord to court for the monies she has paid. However would she win without written proof of the agreement, and what are the consequences or winning or losing? Therefore the decision to sue is not necessarily just based on right and wrong and is for the OP's daughter to decide.

There is no implied contract with the tenant. There could have been several in the time scale.