Why wait for the postal NTK and why not admit who the driver was?

Sir_Ali

I have seen the explanation regarding this on NEWBIES topic, but I have a feeling they are not relevant to my personal situation, so I would like to get an independent opinion on whether I should still wait, or go ahead with 1st stage of appealing:

My car is parked on allocated parking bay right near appartment where I live and parking space comes within my flat rental (included within my tenancy contract). Parking is managed by one of the BPA members and I can see it listed on List of Approved Operators on BPA site.

I have permit that I have to display when car is parked on that secure parking space and its clearly mentioned on the signs - that failure to display permit will cause parking charge. Few days ago parking charge was issued to my car, as permit was not visible on windshield - however, it was inside the car. Initially I was about to pay, but then realised that there's a mistake within the registration number - 1 letter/number is wrong. At this point, I think its very irrelevant who the driver was, as this is residence parking and ticked was issued at 4AM in the morning (quite mean of them actually).

I would assume they took pictures of the car, so theoretically they can easily figure out their mistake, however, would it be legal for them to amend actual vehicle registration details after ticket was issued? As I would still have an original parking notice with its reference and incorrect registration number. Well, I guess just for that its worth to wait? I'm thinking to build my case for POPLA using that incorrect parking charge ticket details as main justification, plus the fact that I'm already paying for the parking space within my monthly rent.

So, my thinking is: If I appeal now, saying that I have found your parking charge on my vehicle, however details on your parking change do not correspond to my vehicle registration number therefore I believe, you should cancel it, as its technically not my vehicle. If I wait, they will realise they made a typo on the actual parking charge ticket, they will get correct details from pictures and will send me NTK with my correct reg number, so at that point, I will have proper NTK and less options to appeal? Now, can they actually change reg number after they have issued initial parking charge - assuming I would have a hard copy of it, and print screen when I tried to pay with my real reg number? Can somebody please clarify, as I'm quite confused - the more I read, the more i get confused. Thank you!

Umkomaas

Ignore anything to do with 'right number, wrong number' in the context of PPCs it is totally irrelevant. No one plays by the rules of logic and fairness.

And it's in this context that the advice is to WAIT for the NtK. The PPC has to wait for 28 days to elapse for the driver to pay or appeal. If no response, they have to get RK details from the DVLA. Most do this electronically, and if they've got the wrong VRM for your car, they're going to get the details of someone else. They're going to chase him/her and find they've got the wrong person. They might then decide to double check their photos (or they might not). As a minimum, I guess, the parking chimp hovering around your property at silly o'clock might be getting his 4r$e kicked because he can't read and transcribe the same details as those that are staring him in his face.

So with the above in mind, you may hear nothing else, don't go giving them any opportunity to resolve their mistake - possibly at your expense. If they can't get basics right, why do you want to do their job for them.

So there's the first opportunity for the PPC to fall flat on its face. And there are plenty of others to come if they pursue the RK rather than the driver.

So it's 'patience' and while you're awaiting the NtK do plenty of reading here and PePiPoo to get yourself up to speed with all of this stuff.

Sir_Ali

Thanks, that is making sense.

Stroma

We don't normally say to appeal before the NtK arrives unless the car is not yours, like a company or leased one, then we say to appeal to get it away from the company or lease company.

We sometimes say appeal on specific companies, so who is the parking company in this case? And is it England or Wales ?

Thanks

Coupon-mad

There is another way but I wouldn't do it in your shoes this time, when they have handed you a win on a plate as they got the car reg wrong! Let them fall on their face trying to get your data and then issuing a NTK (if they do) which will have miraculously put the reg number right (and therefore fails POFA 2012 as it doesn't 'repeat the information' on the PCN!).

As you've asked an interesting question, the other way forward we have discussed a little bit, is more complicated - hence why it's not on the NEWBIES thread as people struggle enough without more options! The 'other way' (if you had not got a PCN with a wrong car reg) can be to do as you say but dither a bit & send the usual appeal around day 25 by post (or day 27 by email), before they can have got the DVLA data and printed a NTK. They would then reply maybe 3 weeks, or more, later and might well assume the appellant was the driver. They certainly wouldn't issue any NTK at all. So, all the person then does is make sure their POPLA appeal (still worded as from the keeper) is submitted around day 55 or later and one of the points would be 'This Operator might not have noticed but I am merely the registered keeper and there is no keeper liability because these twerps haven't issued a NTK and it's too late now!'.

Sir_Ali

Stroma wrote: »

We sometimes say appeal on specific companies, so who is the parking company in this case? And is it England or Wales ?

Its in England and company is 'Secure-a-Space'.

Sir_Ali

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Let them fall on their face trying to get your data and then issuing a NTK (if they do) which will have miraculously put the reg number right (and therefore fails POFA 2012 as it doesn't 'repeat the information' on the PCN!).

[/I]

Thanks for confirming, this is what I had in mind as well! Meanwhile I will meditate on option two

Sir_Ali

Had a fresh look at my ticket today. Maybe I’m being paranoid, but it’s clearly said that "All appeals should be received within 28 days from date of issue". Are you saying that postal NTK will also have that remark regarding 28 days of appeal period? Can they 'skip' NTK and just pass my details to dept collectors - sounds weird and really wrong... Basically I just want to make sure I will have legal rights to appeal and go to POPLA, as I'm pretty confident it should be resolved there in my favour.

This is what is written on my ticket:

IF PAYMENT IS NOT RECEIVED WITHIN 28 DAYS OF NOTICE ISSUE DATE YOU WILL BE HELD LIABLE FOR ANY COSTS INCURRED IN DEBT RECOVERY AND/OR COURT ENFORCEMENT.

VEHICLE KEEPERS SHOULD BE AWARE THAT FOR UNPAID PARKING CHARGE NOTICES, THEIR NAME AND ADDRESS MAY BE REQUESTED FROM DVLA.

All appeals should be received within 28 days from date of issue. Appeals made outside of this time may not be responded to except in extreme circumstances at the company's discretion.

PS Unfortunately can't attach the scan as I'm newbie.

bod1467

For the record, the keeper ALSO gets 28 days to lodge an appeal, from the date of the Notice to Keeper.

Stroma

The registered keeper also gets a chance to appeal, otherwise how can there be registered keeper liability ? This is a small two bit company, so there is a real chance that somebody like roxburghe will contact you first, and they may pretend its too late to appeal.

You could send an appeal as the 'keeper' now, if you do that wait until day 25 after ticketing and send by post with free proof of postage at the post office & via email.

Coupon-mad

Sir_Ali wrote: »

Its in England and company is 'Secure-a-Space'.

Ooooo... they don't crop up much and are ones who use a funny wording on their signs sometimes pretending it's a 'contractual sum' to park. Also I think they don't send a NTK and do go straight to debt collector drivel, giving people the runaround.

So on balance, now I have spotted who it is, I would go for plan B as I explained above, sending the template appeal from the NEWBIES thread, fairly close to 25 days from the parking event. The idea being to drag it beyond day 56 in the end with no NTK ever sent but a nice POPLA code anyway.

And can you show us the sign please? Remove the http from any link or put a few gaps in the URL when you try to post it here.