Halifax misleading 24/7 availability is fraud

matttye

numbersix06 wrote: »

It's a criminal matter as it's misleading.The thousands of people that would have rang that 0845 number under the illusion they would get through to someone because it said the line was open 24/7 is a lie and has profited Halifax to the tune of a lot of money.
Obtaining money by deception which this is,is a criminal offence.
Yes it's the 0845 9444555 at the top of statement.
Why did they ask for my credit card details then say that they were closed for a public holiday.
There's no getting away from it it is fraud!!

You would have to prove that Halifax did it intentionally and in order to make money by people calling their number.

Fraud is dishonestly making a false representation to make gain for yourself or another, or to cause loss to another or expose another to risk of loss.

In other words it's not enough to show that the misleading information caused loss to someone, you'd have to show that Halifax deliberately mislead people in order to cause loss to them.

Halifax would probably just say "Ah yes, we appreciate that that may need clarification and will amend our letterheaded paper accordingly."

Prove they did it deliberately. You can't.

No crime, nothing to see here... move along.

numbersix06

PeacefulWaters wrote: »

Make your mind up.

Is it a crime or a consumer complaint?

What would you say PPI is?Id say both wouldn't you?
They both incur fines for obvious reasons:-)

numbersix06

matttye wrote: »

You would have to prove that Halifax did it intentionally and in order to make money by people calling their number.

Fraud is dishonestly making a false representation to make gain for yourself or another, or to cause loss to another or expose another to risk of loss.

In other words it's not enough to show that the misleading information caused loss to someone, you'd have to show that Halifax deliberately mislead people in order to cause loss to them.

Halifax would probably just say "Ah yes, we appreciate that that may need clarification and will amend our letterheaded paper accordingly."



Prove they did it deliberately. You can't.

No crime, nothing to see here... move along.

They did make a false misrepresentation though...obviously I can't prove it but the fact it's not just on my statement but also on other literature is enough evidence I think.They would have known when they were printing it and ignorance is not an excuse I'm afraid.
Regulators take the evidence on hand...if everyone pleaded ignorance it's pointless having a regulator or ombudsman to see things are done properly and customers are not mislead but I take your points on board:-)

matttye

numbersix06 wrote: »

They did make a false misrepresentation though...obviously I can't prove it but the fact it's not just on my statement but also on other literature is enough evidence I think.They would have known when they were printing it and ignorance is not an excuse I'm afraid.
Regulators take the evidence on hand...if everyone pleaded ignorance it's pointless having a regulator or ombudsman to see things are done properly and customers are not mislead but I take your points on board:-)

Ignorance is a defence to fraud actually. If you don't recognise that what you're doing is wrong then you can't be dishonest.

I'm not disputing that they made a false representation, but there's no evidence to suggest they did so dishonestly.

The test for dishonesty in criminal law was decided in the case of R -v- Ghosh:

"In determining whether the prosecution has proved that the defendant was acting dishonestly, a jury must first of all decide whether according to the ordinary standards of reasonable and honest people what was done was dishonest. If it was not dishonest by those standards, that is the end of the matter and the prosecution fails.


If it was dishonest by those standards, then the jury must consider whether the defendant himself must have realised that what he was doing was by those standards dishonest."

- Lord Lane CJ

In other words, when Halifax printed/ordered their stationary, did they realise that lots of people would call them by them not clarifying that they're not open on public holidays, and in turn did they realise that they'd make lots of money from these callers?

If Halifax knew all of that at the time then what they did is dishonest. If they didn't know that, then it wasn't dishonest and it's not fraud, because dishonesty is an ingredient of fraud.

grumbler

If you believe that it's fraud and criminal offense, you have to deal with the police, not with the regulator or ombudsman.

The police will have a laugh.

antonia86

The 24/7 claim is accurate to an extent, you can check balances, pay bill payments, amend standing orders and all that sort of thing 24/7. Just not all functions are available 24/7.

numbersix06

Ok thanks for all your comments I appreciate them and may just complain instead of levelling the fraud accusation.
I will be getting a call either tomorrow or Thurs so will let you know what they say.
And Antonio I don't like dancing in the rain as it means I will get wet lol:-)

giblet10

Get a crime reference number..freely available from the police.

On the other hand, ask yourself "why did I phone this number on a bank holiday? why couldn't I just wait until normal working hours after the break?"

OK, so you couldn't get through because they were closed, which is surprising given they operate two large centres 24x7 (Pitreavie and Leeds) but they will get stats on attempted calls. By trying to call on a bank holiday you add to the demand and therefore next time some oiks on minimum wage will be forced to work a bank holiday.
Believe me, some gob!!!!! senior manager or 'head of' in their telephone banking department is sure to say "we had x number of calls but couldn't answer them so let's make a big deal of it and open a call centre at the next bank holiday".

Now, next time you call, try to call during office hours. Think back to the 1980's in the nicer times before call centres and you won't go far wrong. And you'll be doing your bit for the good of society and family life.

BillJones

numbersix06 wrote: »

Oh I think it's more in the Financial ombudsman jurisdiction..I have already encouraged them to report that themselves.

Why can people with frivolous complaints such as yours never, ever follow the correct procedure?

Is causing a drama and getting some attention really more important than resolving your complaint?

And before you ask why it's frivolous, I'll tell you...

They do offer a service 24/7, as they claim, they just don't offer EVERY service 24/7, and you called out of hours for one that is not offered.

Complaining that they don't offer a service that they don't claim to offer is just silly.

Big_Tree

numbersix06 wrote: »

It's a criminal matter as it's misleading.The thousands of people that would have rang that 0845 number under the illusion they would get through to someone because it said the line was open 24/7 is a lie and has profited Halifax to the tune of a lot of money.
Obtaining money by deception which this is,is a criminal offence.
Yes it's the 0845 9444555 at the top of statement.
Why did they ask for my credit card details then say that they were closed for a public holiday.
There's no getting away from it it is fraud!!

It's not a public holiday. it's a bank holiday.....let that sink i for a second.....what are Halifax?.....Yes......they're a bank