Moving to rural cottage - advice on heating, please

Menolly56

We'd really appreciate some help - we are moving from our large 3 bed family house which has gas CH (fairly new condensing boiler) to a two bed cottage that has a propane gas multipoint (for hot water) fuelled by large orange cylinders, an electric shower, electric storage heaters and a multifuel woodburner which is less than a year old. There is no mains gas, in common with many rural areas, and little room for oil (small garden and even smaller kitchen).

We had considered an Airsource heat pump, since there are no existing radiators to replace, but the cottage is a semi-detached ( back-to-back with the neighbour) and although there is a suitable place for installation, the last thing we need is to move into a village and upset the neighbours with the noise from the ASHP.

Having read the reviews on the German and other electric radiators and rejected these, we'd love some alternative advice - the cottage is well-insulated and double glazed. We are now retired, have only a small pension, plus state pension and after selling our house and purchasing this one, there will not be vast amounts of money left over - so can't afford to make a mistake, either in the type of installation or its ongoing costs.

TIA

matelodave

I've got an air source heat pump and it really isn't all that noisy. It certainly makes less noise than the exhaust from a lot of condensing boilers I've heard running and a lot less than traffic going past or even a car idling.

There is a prejudice about them which in my opinion isn't really warranted although that's not to say that there aren't some rattly old air conditioners out there but as soon as people see a big fan unit outside they get fired up with indignation.

Properly installed they don't rattle or vibrate, you can't really hear the compressor and the fans are no more noisy than a large pedestal fan.

Go and have a listen to one or two before discounting them on the basis of noise.

That's not to say that they wouldn't be suitable anyway if you can't get the insulation up to scratch and the system design right. However if you are installing a complete system then you have the opportunity to get it designed correctly and optimised to suit your lifestyle especially if you are going to be at home most days.

You do need to get several quotations (using different systems as well - (Mitsubishi, Daikin, Panasonic etc) and understand how they work. They are different to conventional heating systems and a good grasp will help you evaluate quotations and be able to ask the right questions. As they run at lower flow temperatures you need heat emitters (rads, underfloor systems or fan assisted rads) that are suited to low temperature operation. Do some of your own heat calculations (there are calculators on the internet) to get a feel of what your heating load will be and the sizing of radiators or underfloor systems - hopefully you've got an up to date EPC to help as well.

I'm very pleased with ours (completely new system installed nearly four years ago in a 3 bed detached bungalow). We are all electric (no gas or oil) and I reckon it's saving us around £500-£600 on our annual electricity bills. We should be even better off now there's a good chance of getting some RHI money.


If you want more info then PM me

Robwiz

I was going to write what matelodave said. You're very unlikely to upset neighbours with the noise from an ASHP - they really are whisper quiet. Go and check one out to convince yourselves.

The big risk with ASHPs has been poor design of retrofits, where the pump has been slotted into an existing central heating system without taking account of the lower flow temperature. You should be able to avoid that by getting your system designed for your new home. The reputation and track record of the installer is very important so do your due diligence.

It's also worth pointing out that ASHPs struggle to achieve a coefficient of performance (the ratio of heat output to electricity consumed) of 3, due to the need to get the flow temperature up for the water in the system. Air to air heat pumps can achieve COPs above 5 because they only need to heat the air to around 30º C. Unfortunately, AAHPs are so financially attractive that the Government doesn't subsidise their installation through the renewable heat incentive.

However, before you start spending your savings on new heating, why not get to know the cottage's heating characteristics first. Use cheap fan heaters and the wood burner to heat it for your first year and see how many units and hours of heat you need in each room to be comfortable. That will give you a baseline to compare the savings from installing a system.

From experience, it's possible to get by without a full central heating system – if you have good point heat sources in the main living rooms the temperature throughout a small house will equalise quite effectively. It may be sufficient to have radiators downstairs and use electric panels for bedrooms and a heated towel rail for the bathroom on timers.

Menolly56

Thankyou, both, for the sound advice - we do need to see/hear these systems to get an idea of what their impact would be
We were thinking of going to Swindon to check out the Centre for Building & Renovation as they have various systems there.
Matelodave, your experience with ASHP sounds very positive - think we may well stash the money away and see how the cottage 'behaves', as Robwiz suggests. We've been a bit spoilt with the gas CH here, but both grew up in houses without CH......perhaps those extra woolies and a couple of vintage eiderdowns might be a good idea and sort out the heating system next year

muckybutt

And on the down side for ASHP for us it was one of the worst decisions we have ever made.

Despite the calcs being done professionally and the heating specifically ripped out and reinstalled it cost us a fortune to run, £800 in 70 days use :eek:

The noise also had the neighbours moaning to the extent that the defrost cycle made one hell of a racket, the first thing we knew about that was environmental health knocking at the door wanting to do a noise survey.

I would say that if your new house isn't ultra well insulated then avoid, if I were to go that route again I would look to GSHP instead.

Have you room for a pellet boiler / stove ? with the farce of the ASHP we ripped the damned thing out after only a year and replaced it with a multifuel stove which runs the CH and we use off peak for the hot water. Currently thinking about installing a pellet boiler as we now have an extension to heat as well however that is ultra well insulated so wont need that much to heat it.

Menolly56

Did think of a Biomass boiler but with a cottage of only 94 sq.m., and a smallish garden, there isn't much in the way of space for one, let alone storage for the pellets!

GSHP is also not an option, for the same reasons.

May we ask, which ASHP did you have installed so we can avoid it if we go this route, please?

matelodave

I'd be interested in what system that Muckybutt had installed, that sort of consumption sounds as though it was a very poor installation or a lack of knowledge on how to use it.


Our total electricity bill for 2013 including lighting, heating, hot water washing (including generous use of the tumbledryer), cooking, lighting etc was less than 8000kwh at 10.5p/kwh= £840 (including standing charge). We've used less than £300 so far this year due to the mild weather and our place isn't all that well insulated

muckybutt

The ASPH we had was a 9Kw Heatking Bwarm http://www.heatking.co.uk/products/bwarmi-range/

Installed professionally by one of their accredited installers and comissioned by Heatking, TRV's fitted to all the rads etc

When we raised the issue of it being so expensive with them them came out and stayed with us for the day watching how the system was running and how we used it, they were left scratching their heads and could not find anything wrong with how it was being used or how it was running I personally think the system was undersized and was flogging its guts out to keep us warm.

The electric bill and the noise complaint were the straws that broke the camels back.

Robwiz

With what you have written about the small space, good insulation and double glazing, your cottage sounds like it could suitable for ASHP. However, as muckybutt (and many others) have testified there are too many 'fast buck' merchants in the industry for it to be considered a risk-free choice.

I'd be inclined to use the woodburner as your main heat source, leaving your internal doors open to allow the temperature to equalise around the cottage. If you burn Verdo briquettes bought from Home Bargains at £2.49 per 10kg pack you will be getting close to the same cost per kWh as mains gas. I find that a batch of 24 fits nicely in my car and can be stored in four stacks of six across the back wall of the garage.

If it's a bit chilly in the mornings, you can always use an electric heater whilst getting showered and dressed. We've found the 500W ones surprisingly effective at taking the chill off rooms. Of course an air to air heat pump with a COP of 3 or higher would use less electricity, but it takes a long time to get a payback on a £500 heat pump compared to a £30 resistance heater.

I would only use the storage heaters when the forecast overnight temperature is below 5º or so. But first check that you have the Economy 7 tariff and that the storage heaters are timed to be on when you have the cheap rate. I'd keep an eye on your meter too to avoid unpleasant surprises.

Electric showers are okay – whilst their power rating looks horrific, the cost for 5-10 minutes is only a few pence.

TiredGeek

Whilst I'll agree ASHP are not noisy, in a rural environment they can make a significant amount of noise.

If the ambient noise level is very low, as in no traffic, no kids playing, etc, then you can certainly hear one running.
In a town setting they're silent, you can't make them out over the ambient noise levels, but in a village, at night......
I can hear mine from 50 foot away, but then I can also hear my neighbours dog barking, and they're well over a mile away!

Get a sound meter app for your phone and see how noisy it is where you are, then measure the units from about a meter away when you go see them, it'll give you some idea what you're dealing with.


Mine come in at about 60db, a sheep in the field next to the house is about 80db

Cardew

Leaving aside the noise problems - and they can be real problems with a semi-detached house - you really are taking 'pot luck' that you get a good installation.