Missed letter from parking company (UKPC) now have a debt collectors letter

Coupon-mad

Coupon-mad wrote: »

A gentle reminder to search this forum, pleeeease.

This continued questioning on this thread is unneeded. We know it's all new to you but the best way you can learn about this scam is from other people's experiences. That's why I suggested, please search this forum. Far better than post after post suggesting that you haven't noticed/read all the HUNDREDS of other debt recovery plus threads here. It would save our sanity if people could just search to read what's been said before, otherwise (sorry to say) it is like Groundhog Day on this forum.

Groundhog Day again then! Please please please search the forum and read other threads like yours. No need to update every tedious letter in the chain that you should be expecting by now. I know it sounds harsh but the truth is the forum works best if you get off the isolation of your little thread and instead, search for others who have been there, done that, collected the whole letter chain!

sickoftickets

Hi Coupon-Mad, i'm not that familiar with this forum. I appreciate your advice, but would be even more grateful if you could just point me towards the topics that can help me, as there's loads on here. Thanks.

bod1467

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

In the second green banner from the top, at the right hand side, there are the words Search This Forum ... click it then put in your search term in the box (e.g. UKPC or DRP or DR+ or Debt Recovery Plus) and then do the search.

Coupon-mad

sickoftickets wrote: »

Hi Coupon-Mad, i'm not that familiar with this forum. I appreciate your advice, but would be even more grateful if you could just point me towards the topics that can help me, as there's loads on here. Thanks.

Posting links won't help you in the long run at all - but of course no-one is expecting you to randomly look through the pages of thousands of threads - the forum does it for you with a keyword search, it's easy! That's why I told you how to 'search this forum' to find those threads, and why bod1467 has helped to explain where to search, too. Keywords in bold below, pop them in to the 'search this forum' heading that we've mentioned - next to 'forum tools' just above page one of parking threads.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

If you want to read all the other threads from people posting exactly the same, please search this forum for 'UKPC Recovery'.

HO87

+1

And remember: DR+ are just debt collectors and nothing more. They have absolutely no more power than you or I to pursue debts and that boils down to just asking you to pay up. Of course, like all debt collectors they don't want you to realise that and so deliberately couch their letters in aggressive tones threatening all manner of doom and gloom. Were they to simply say "please pay" more people would ignore them than if they shouted about court action, bailiffs, attachment of earnings and all of the hassle these would inevitably cause to your credit file.

They only get paid if you pay up - and you owe no one anything. Private parking tickets have nothing whatsoever to with "parking management", "parking space maximisation" or "defending landowner's rights" or any of the other specious terms they come up with to hide the fact that they have just one objective: To empty your pocket.

Don't allow yourself to get drawn in by the bluff and bluster.

Loadsofchildren123

Please can experienced forum posters advise if I should post a new thread for this? I had a Notice to Keeper. I stuck it in my handbag and forgot to appeal within the timescale. Immediately the appeal window ended I got a letter from their debt recovery people saying pay up within 14 days or we will issue proceedings.
One thing I think is missing from these threads is some more detail about the obligations under the Civil Procedure Rules (the rules of the court) about what Claimants MUST do before they issue proceedings (which are contained in the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct). This is important for people who are out of time to appeal.
Firstly, before starting proceedings to comply with the Practice Direction they need to:
1. write a letter headed LETTER BEFORE CLAIM

Loadsofchildren123

SORRY, pressed send to early
..... advising you to get legal advice and specifying exactly what the claim is, in sufficient detail for you to deal with it. Of course, they have not spelled out the claim because they have not specified whether it is damages for trespass or breach of contract, or anything else, and have not specified how the losses have been calculated.


You then get a reasonable time to reply and seek further info (if needed). Both parties are then supposed to "take stock" and explore all reasonable forms of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR). If a party unreasonably refuses the other party's suggestion of/invitation to ADR, they are in breach of the Practice Direction. Even if they win in court, the court has the power to punish them on costs for refusing to agree to the suggested ADR. The court also has powers to throw out (strike out) the claim, or to stay it in order to force the Claimant to turn back the clock and retrospectively comply with the Practice Direction.


The PD is very clear to follow - if you google CPR and click on the Pre-Action protocols section you will find it.


In the case of the parking appeals and POPLA, the POPLA appeal IS a valid and reasonable form of ADR. Even if you are out of time to appeal to them and to get the POPLA code, you must still ask to be permitted to appeal and for the POPLA code. if they say no, they are breaching the Practice Direction because they are unreasonably refusing a reasonable ADR process. They will know that if they refuse to agree, then they are in trouble if they do issue proceedings against you.


I wrote two letters yesterday. One to the debt recovery people to complain that their letter was not compliant with the Practice Direction because it did not give me any detail of the basis of the claim or the charges, it was not headed LETTER BEFORE CLAIM and did not recommend that I sought legal advice. The second was to the parking company to request that I be allowed to appeal out of time and that if they refused this then they would be in breach of the Practice Direction and, if they issued proceedings, I would be asking for the court to either strike out the claim entirely because of the serious breach, or to stay it, and that in any event I would be seeking a punitive costs order. I copied both letters to each of them. For good measure I also wrote a "without prejudice save as to costs" letter offering £1.30 - the original parking charge of £1.20 plus 10p interest which I say is their loss. I took care to describe myself throughout as the keeper and have not made any admission as to whether I or a third party was the driver, because that does not seem to be relevant.


I can post a copy of my letters if you want to see them.


So in short, I don't think it is in any way fatal if you are out of time to appeal and you should ask them to allow you to appeal out of time or they will be in breach of their pre-action obligations set out in the PD. I am 3 weeks out of time. It is entirely reasonable for me to request an extension to the appeal time limit and unreasonable for them to refuse. If I was 6 months out of time it might not be so reasonable of me, but I was only 3 weeks out.


If someone thinks this is worthy of a separate thread please let me know.

Loadsofchildren123

Sorry, I should add that I appreciate that this information is out there, but because there is so much information in the various threads and NEWBIES section I think this point about appealing out of time has become a bit lost. There is so much information that I find it really hard to navigate around it.




The reason I have specifically mentioned this is because the failure to comply with the PD really has become a killer point and I think this needs emphasising because if enough of a fuss is made about it the PPCs will either give up or let people appeal out of their (arbitrary and non binding) time limit.

Coupon-mad

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

The reason I have specifically mentioned this is because the failure to comply with the PD really has become a killer point

Not that we've noticed - certainly not when fighting PPCs in small claims.

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

Please can experienced forum posters advise if I should post a new thread for this? I had a Notice to Keeper. I stuck it in my handbag and forgot to appeal within the timescale. Immediately the appeal window ended I got a letter from their debt recovery people saying pay up within 14 days or we will issue proceedings.
One thing I think is missing from these threads is some more detail about the obligations under the Civil Procedure Rules (the rules of the court) about what Claimants MUST do before they issue proceedings (which are contained in the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct). This is important for people who are out of time to appeal.
Firstly, before starting proceedings to comply with the Practice Direction they need to:
1. write a letter headed LETTER BEFORE CLAIM

It is in one of the other sticky threads, I would say. The 'LBCCC Fightback' sticky thread, written by retired Solicitor zzzLazyDaisy (linked among those in Crabman's second sticky on this forum). Along with the sticky thread in the same collection of stickies, another one people keep missing, all about 'PPC letter chains' showing people the entire letter chain that posters...keep...posting...about...as...if...they...are...the...first...to...get...the...template...letters!


**Grits teeth and vows to keep away from threads about debt collector tedium as they make me narky seeing as the letters are already here every week, and 'debt collector stage' is covered in the NEWBIES thread, and a search is SO SIMPLE.**

Loadsofchildren123

Coupon mad, sorry I made you grit your teeth. As I said, it is there but it isn't simple to find, and I think the PD point is not being overlooked, but not emphasised enough. It is not easy for new forum users. You are obviously very experienced but I do find it hard to find my way round all the threads, stickies etc. they are monumentally helpful, I agree and I take my hat off to those giving up their time to help idiots like me! I did use one of the template letters but beefed up the PD point considerably. The debt collectors have left me no less than 9 messages in the last 5 days. Apart from telling them not to harass me, which I have done, any advice?