G24 Contractual Parking Charge Notice

Carthesis

Afternoon all,

Signed up to the site just now to post about my experience fighting a speculative parking invoice from G24 Parking.

The Story:

Went to the local cinema / entertainment venue in Sheffield (Meadowhall Centretainment - some of you may know it) to go and see a film. As is traditional, no parking whatsoever in the car park which was built as part of the location, so parked round the corner in the Meadowhall Retail Park shopping centre. Retail park shuts at 20:00; we didn't arrive until 20:30 or so so we weren't using spaces reserved for shoppers etc. No harm, no foul.

Came out of the film about four hours later ("Wolf of Wall Street" - it's a long one but very good!), got in the car and drove home. About a week later, I get - as the registered keeper of the car - one of the obnoxious, tarted-up-to-look-official 'Contractual Parking Charge Notices' through the post claiming all the usual nonsense about how under Section 6 of the Freedoms Act 2012 I have to name the driver etc. etc. along with the ANPR camera photos of my car with some timestamps plastered on there and claiming that I'd exceeded the allowed three hours of free parking and so was now liable for £50 as a 'contractual parking charge', but that they would graciously and generously cut into their meagre, pitiful profit margins and reduce it to £25 if I handed over my hard-earned promptly and with no fuss like a good little lad...

The Solution:

Having previously read on some sites that these parking charge notices are basically an attempt to fine people without any kind of legal powers - and thus not being worth the paper they're printed on - I did some digging and followed one of the excellent guides on this very forum (an easy to follow sticky thread at the very top of the forum, for reference) with a few minor amendments, tweaks and additions of my own.

ColliesCarer

Good to know you found the stickies so useful
Keep us posted :-)

Carthesis

The Letter:

Posted the following letter to them a couple of days after receiving the original 'CPCN' from them:

Parking Invoice – ‘Contractual Parking Charge Notice’ No. xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear G24 Ltd.

As the registered keeper of the vehicle (registration XX 99 XXX) concerned on the correspondence detailed above, I have received your parking invoice which I decline your invitation to pay.

I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the basis of the following:

• In your correspondence, you allege that the driver of the vehicle "exceeded the maximum duration of stay at Meadowhall Retail Park, Attercliffe Common, Sheffield, S9 2YZ". You also state that "the terms and conditions of the car park are clearly displayed … in prominent places". Unfortunately, you have provided no evidence of these allegations. Two photographs of the vehicle were provided with your invoice, however neither image shows the vehicle definitively in the location you allege, nor do they show the ‘clear display in prominent places’ of the terms and conditions. Furthermore, without a copy of the "terms and conditions" you claim exist, I am not satisfied the driver was in breach of them.
• Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract;
• You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass;
• The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner;

At this point, I wish to give you the opportunity to cancel your invoice via issuance of a cancellation letter. If you do not wish to cancel this invoice, I will require notification via letter detailing your reasons for rejection of my offer to cancel, which must state:

• The ‘Parking on Private Land Appeals’ (POPLA) verification code to be used for any subsequent appeals on my part as the Registered Keeper of the vehicle in question;
• The legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee) as your signage was not seen or accepted by the driver and your recent invoice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As the registered keeper of the vehicle concerned, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation;
• If alleging breach of contract, with your letter rejecting my offer of cancellation I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also provide details of how / why these losses are recompensed by payment of a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious, and further how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss;
• If alleging trespass, please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum;
• if alleging 'contractual fee', I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice following this request will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

A failure to provide either of the documents detailed above within 28 days from the date of this letter will be deemed an implied agreement on your part of my rejection of your invoice.

Any other contact by your company, other than the cancellation letter detailed above, but including your letter detailing your rejection of my offer to cancel, will be deemed as an appeal of my rejection of your invoice and subject to the terms and conditions outlined below:

• All appeals are subject to a £54 Appeal Registration Fee (ARF) that, by submitting an appeal, you agree to pay.
• The ARF has been determined utilising the court rate of £18 per hour for a three hour period to cover the processing and consideration of your appeal of my rejection of your invitation to pay, and any subsequent acceptance or rejection response which is required.
• The ARF must be paid at the time the appeal is registered, by cheque (made payable to ‘Mr. Carthesis’ and sent to the above address.)
• Any appeals received without the relevant ARF will not be considered, but the ARF will remain payable, along with an additional £18 administration charge for any and each subsequent communication or appeal received without payment.
• In all cases, an individual invoice will be prepared and submitted for each subsequent appeal received. The administration charge per invoice has been determined utilising the court rate of £18 per hour for one-half hour in preparation of the invoice, plus £9 to cover postage costs by Royal Mail Special Delivery. Failure to pay this invoice may result in your case being transferred to a debt collection company or to further legal proceedings where additional costs could be incurred.

For the avoidance of doubt, any correspondence or contact received from yourselves (G24 Ltd.) or by agents acting on your behalf (including, but not limited to, debt collection companies) by either post or email will be considered as an appeal and thus subject to the ARF that, by submitting said appeal, you will have agreed to pay. Note that the ARF is non-refundable, regardless of the outcome of your appeal.

Additionally, I draw your attention to the following points of which I invite you to take formal notice:

• Any obfuscation on your part, such as stating I have to name the driver; alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper; or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.
• Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further contact requesting payment (except the cancellation letter or detailed rejection letter as noted above) will constitute harassment. If you continue subsequent contact by your company and that of any agent authorised by your company to contact me on your behalf, will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' (as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 10/02/2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further.
• This letter serves as your notification that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters (except as noted above) will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

Notwithstanding the above, if you reject my appeal, and thus the subsequent offer to cancel the invoice, and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I will seek to claim any costs from you which are not covered by the ARF and any subsequent administration fees, including my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment. By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Yours,

etc.

Sent it off to them by Registered Delivery three days after I got their original letter. Wondered what sort of response I'd get after feeling somewhat like I'd set the cat amongst the pigeons. Basically was just hoping to make them think I was more trouble than it was worth pursuing.

I waited with bated breath...

Carthesis

The Response:

Got home today - about an hour ago in fact - after being away with work for a few days to a few envelopes. Mostly the normal stuff - credit card bills and the like - but one with a postmark from the area where the Parking Vultures have their head office.

I opened it with some anticipation and trepidation (despite the fact I'd already gotten the letter to POPLA drafted and ready to print, sign and post - again thanks to the stickies here) and found the following:

... Blast. That's ruined my flow now. I was hoping to post a link to a photo of the actual letter, but can't as I'm a new user. Wanted to prove that I'm not just some keyboard warrior and that I have actually had some success. Ah well.

Anyway, they decided to "waive" the charge on this occasion.

:beer:

The overall point (finally, I hear some of you shouting in the cheap seats and from the back!):

The overall point is this - whatever you do, under no circumstances, should you give in to these tricksters, chancers and charlatans. They are simply confidence crooks who are trying it on and playing on your natural fears to get you to send them money for nothing.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU SEND THEM MONEY!

Go through whatever the company in questions appeal process is. If that doesn't work, go through POPLA or the BPA appeal process. If that fails and they say - although they won't as they aren't stupid - that they're taking you to court, let them.

YOU DON'T OWE THESE PEOPLE A SINGLE PENNY - LET ALONE WHATEVER EXTORTIONATE FIGURE THEY'VE PULLED OUT OF THEIR !!!!!!!

I admit to being skeptical when I started out. Surely these people would have learnt from previous successful appeals and the handful of court cases that have actually been brought. Surely they would have some get-out for dealing with some bolshy, argumentative Yorkshireman such as myself.

They don't.

Don't pay 'em. They're crooks, con-artists and thieves. Play them at their own game.

All the best in your fights in the future.

ColliesCarer

Brilliant :rotfl:

I see I was a bit premature thinking this was still on-going.

Just love it when a fightback wins :T :T :T :T

I'm sure we'd all love to see their response to your excellent letter
So if you post using a broken link (just take off the http://)
you'll be able to share that with us.

Carthesis

Yeah - I didn't want to post asking for help/advice etc. when the info was already there as I'm sure that gets annoying. Then when the letter came through, I figured I should 'pay it forward' by explaining what I did, how I did it, and proving that this approach can and does work. i just wanted to write it with some verve, style and panache!

Thanks for the tip about the links. The response from them is here.

dropbox.com/s/usk20t673hxrw4h/Letter%20from%20G24.jpg

I'm impressed/amused that the letter states that the charged has been 'waived' - like they're doing me a bloody favour! I was almost hoping they'd try to carry on with getting me to pay... I assumed they'd tell me to get bent, and so I was getting myself giddy like a kid at Xmas at the thought of producing an invoice for £54 plus another £18 and sending it to them...

The scunners.

ColliesCarer

Carthesis wrote: »

Yeah - I didn't want to post asking for help/advice etc. when the info was already there ...

I'm sure those that produced it will be pleased to see what good use you put it to

Carthesis wrote: »

... i just wanted to write it with some verve, style and panache! ...

Well 10/10 there :T

Carthesis wrote: »

...I'm impressed/amused that the letter states that the charged has been 'waived' - like they're doing me a bloody favour! I was almost hoping they'd try to carry on with getting me to pay... I assumed they'd tell me to get bent, and so I was getting myself giddy like a kid at Xmas at the thought of producing an invoice for £54 plus another £18 and sending it to them...

Love the humour - great story :beer:

Here's your clicky link for you

https://www.dropbox.com/s/usk20t673hxrw4h/Letter%20from%20G24.jpg

Was :rotfl: when I saw it!!! War and Peace it certainly isn't

Think you totally flummoxed them :eek:

These pp guys aren't the sharpest knives in the box.

Enjoy the sweet taste of victory or something a little stronger in celebration of a knockout victory :beer:

Coupon-mad

Carthesis wrote: »

Yeah - I didn't want to post asking for help/advice etc. when the info was already there as I'm sure that gets annoying. Then when the letter came through, I figured I should 'pay it forward' by explaining what I did, how I did it, and proving that this approach can and does work. i just wanted to write it with some verve, style and panache!

Thanks for the tip about the links. The response from them is here.

dropbox.com/s/usk20t673hxrw4h/Letter%20from%20G24.jpg

I'm impressed/amused that the letter states that the charged has been 'waived' - like they're doing me a bloody favour! I was almost hoping they'd try to carry on with getting me to pay... I assumed they'd tell me to get bent, and so I was getting myself giddy like a kid at Xmas at the thought of producing an invoice for £54 plus another £18 and sending it to them...

The scunners.

Well done - an example to other newbies!

:T

Re the bit in bold - you still could you know!

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=89127

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=85641

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thousands-parking-fines-could-overturned-2367275

Carthesis

No, I don't think I can. the way I phrased the letter - deliberately, I might add - was so that their only get out without it costing them any money would be to cancel it. As, unlike them, I'd made my terms and conditions very clear but stated that the only contact I would accept that I wouldn't consider an appeal was the cancellation letter, I don't see a way how I can now go back on it.

i'd also deliberately made sure that the charge i would have levelled at them exceeded the amount of money they wanted from me, even taking the loss of the 'discount' into account. The beauty being that I would have had a stronger claim to the money than they ever did; if their claim was valid then so was mine; and the fact that even if by some miracle they DID win the appeal, it'd still cost them far more than it would end up costing me.

You'll probably notice as well that it was written in such a way that if I got a letter from them that didn't contain the relevant information, meaning i had to write back to them AGAIN, or that if I sent ti to POPLA, i was in a position to invoice them for my costs before it even went near a court...

i think they basically just did the sums. It's what I would have done.

It would be fairly trivial to adapt the letter - which was itself based on the brilliant one you wrote in the first place C-M - in such a way as to make clear that you are charging them for your time in dealing with the entire, speculative invoice attempting to gain money by menaces situation. If I was writing the letter again, I might consider doing that and may well do if I get another dodgy charge letter from them in the future. I would probably also add something at the start about how surely they are aware, being a responsible company and keeping up with all the issues raised by the regulators of their industry, that POPLA has recently seen a number of successful appeals because of no GPEOL etc., and thus surely they know this is a nothing more than a frivolous, speculative, pathetic attempt to extort money with menaces which has no basis whatsoever in either civil, contract and especially criminal law, and that my charges are being included on the basis of having to deal with this situation of their own making etc. etc.

(Christ that turned into a bit of a run-on sentence didn't it? I sound a bit ranty there...)

To be honest, i can do without the £50. I'd prefer that it went down this way as it's less hassle for me. If they'd've messed with me, i'd've had 'em mind.

Just_caring

Hi Carthesis, I have received a "contractual Parking Charge Notice" from G24 for parking in the same place, I had taken my 90 year old mum to the new shop The Range so after morning coffee, lunch and shopping we over stayed by 33 minutes, didn't realise there was a time limit to parking!!!
I will use your letter, where did you obtain it from and also inform The Range as I'm sure with the size of the shop and on site restaurant a lot of people are going to get caught out.

ColliesCarer

Hi Just Caring,

Carthesis adapted the letter from a template letter you will find in the NEWBIES sticky thread linked below.
Take a look through the thread for the info and advice you will need to deal with the charge notice

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4816822

also you may find the flow chart below useful - look at the most recent post in the link below for the latest version

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4922055

If you have any questions or need further advice please create your own thread and the forum experts will respond to you there
Regards