Famous Rich and Hungry

neverdespairgirl

But I do think the comparison is correct - whether it is £25k in earnings, or £25k in benefits, that enables like to be compared with like.

If I tell you that a household in Hull has an income of £35k, and a household in London has the same, it's obvious that other things being equal, housing will costs a lot more in the latter than the former. Income is, of course, only ever one part of the story.

paulineb_2

The argument might as well be, unless every single one of us has a job for life, dont ever get a pet.

I have a friend who has a dog, he was made redundant 3 times in 3 years, incredibly unlucky and always managed to find work relatively quickly, however for a few months things were incredibly tight financially. I dont think for one minute he would ever have considered getting rid of his dog and I bet hed have regretted it bitterly if he did, given that he did get other full time employment that hes still in.

You have to assume that the spare money thats going on pets would be directed to feeding humans if someone was feeding their pets and kids were going hungry, it could be spent on anything.

Also, unless someones cat or dog has the title of Britains most pampered pooch or feline or they had to be on a special diet for a condition, Id say that money spent on food for humans would always be much more than that of pets anyway.

I spent a tiny percentage of my money on pet food compared to my own food.

The fact is, as people have said before, many people have massive knowledge gaps in how to cook healthily and cheaply. If people did actually get help to budget within their means, I bet a lot of people who are struggling could actually manage to feed people and pets much cheaper than they do right now.

You only need to see some peoples spends on food compared to others on the old style board on here to see that cutting costs on what is being spent on food is often one of the first things people recommend in order to budget better.

If someone like Jack Monroe or people who write similar blogs can feed people for £1 a day or not much more, there are always savings to be made.

Also, if people have kids, they get child benefit, Im aware its not a fortune, but I know people who get more in child benefit in a week than I did on JSA by a good £50 a week or so.

Its the overall picture that needs to be addressed and that overall picture of incomings, outgoings, what peoples strengths are and what they need to improve on will be different for every single person on benefit.

FatVonD

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

But I do think the comparison is correct - whether it is £25k in earnings, or £25k in benefits, that enables like to be compared with like.

I agree except that the earned income will then have tax deducted from it whereas the 25k in benefits will be the net figure. Plus the person earning 25k will also have their travel costs to work to be deducted from it. My commute into London costs around £260 per month of my net income so, assuming 25% tax, that's £347 of my gross income.

neverdespairgirl

FatVonD wrote: »

I agree except that the earned income will then have tax deducted from it whereas the 25k in benefits will be the net figure. Plus the person earning 25k will also have their travel costs to work to be deducted from it. My commute into London costs around £260 per month of my net income so, assuming 25% tax, that's £347 of my gross income.

Yes, and other expenses too - travel, work clothes, childcare, etc. OH and I between us look as if we earn a lot, but as far as disposable income is concerned, our childcare costs are a significant expense (higher than our mortgage, and we're in central London).

FatVonD

Gosh, yes, I'd forgotten all about childcare costs!

missprice

FatVonD wrote: »

I agree except that the earned income will then have tax deducted from it whereas the 25k in benefits will be the net figure. Plus the person earning 25k will also have their travel costs to work to be deducted from it. My commute into London costs around £260 per month of my net income so, assuming 25% tax, that's £347 of my gross income.

I think people are saying that the 25k is not in fact the net figure.
Take council tax benefit, they don't get it in their hand, its not cash that people see.
I know some things have changed recently too but rent also was not cash in your hand. This has now altered and the only way round it is to tell the housing benefit people that your absolutely useless with money and it will be paid direct to landlord.
This is what the few people I know are claiming are doing, its often not true but they don't want the money to be stopped for some spurious reason and LL to kick them out, so they put the onus on housing benefit office.

So looking at rents in my area and council tax rates, that's about £600 a month for a 2 bed, but with a 2 bed you obviously dont have enough kids to claim 25k a year.
And again most people who actually claim benefits are working, so they too have childcare and commute and tax to pay.

Job seekers as the news recently informed me are way less than 3 million people.
There are over 60 million people in this country.

Ozzuk

I watched both episodes, found it pretty moving at times. I think the biggest thing that jumped out for me was the debt repayments.

I know there isn't an easy answer, and when people are desperate they need an option to borrow but these people are taken advantage of - insane levels of APR putting them hopelessly in debt. This needs to be looked at - they are keeping the poor 'poor'. I know the answer isn't just lowering APR or stopping the loans as people will either go hungry or worse, or end up borrowing more if its easier. Perhaps instead increasing services that can be requested without money, ie, vouchers, payback through reducing benefits so less 'cash' required.

Its a tough one, but that was the thing that jumped out for me, people preying on the poor and putting them in an endless loop of debt.

Dollardog

I have been really struggling to pay my bills for the last few months. I'm self employed and live alone, so no other income coming in. One of the jobs I was working on finished last December and we were all hoping it would restart at the beginning of the financial year but its not. Losing the income from that meant my income had halved. Then my other work also dried up for the last few weeks, although it has just started back again, and I didn't have any work at all for three weeks. I've built up some debts and have had to make arrangements to pay back which I am struggling to make the payments to at the moment until I find some other work.
Anyway, I do have a job that luckily, provides me with plenty of food, too much for just me and the dog. I regularly give things away to neighbours or get things for raffles/tombolas etc.
I got talking to a girl who was walking her dog on the local park at the same time as me and she was really struggling too. She is on ESA but has had her benefit cut to just £33 a fortnight, she can't afford food, I would imagine her rent would be paid. As I say, I don't have money but I do have plenty of food and felt sorry for her so I said I would take her some food the next day - she didn't turn up, nor the next day, nor the next. I did then see her and gave her four carrier bags of food for which she was so grateful. She insisted that she had ben there at the time arranged, but she hadn't been.
I started back at work last week and got her some more, went and put a note through her door to meet me on the park that evening, she didn't turn up. I carried the food down again for three nights running before I saw her again. I arranged to meet her again a couple of days ago - no show - saw her the next day and she said she had turned up but I was not there. We concluded her clock must be wrong because I know I was there at the time arranged. We arranged to meet again last night and I said to make sure her clock was right, she had over 24 hrs to get the correct time. I went to meet her with another couple of bags of food - again, she wans't there. Twice I have actually baked her some fresh baguettes and taken them still hot from the oven then had to bring them back.
Well, I'm afraid she has blown it this time, I'm not going to keep wandering round a park with my dog, hauling bags of shopping around for someone who says they need it because they are hungry but then doesn't come to fetch it. I should say that on two of the occasions when she hasn't shown, I have gone and knocked on her door with the bags but not had any answer either so had to carry them home.
That may sound harsh but there is only so much you can do for some people. She is short of money but she still buys tobacco for roll ups. Its her dog I feel sorry for, I was taking food and treats for her too and now she will also miss out because of her mum, although I might keep a bag of treats in my pocket for her as its not her fault.

FatVonD

missprice wrote: »

I think people are saying that the 25k is not in fact the net figure.
Take council tax benefit, they don't get it in their hand, its not cash that people see.

But it IS the net amount that they have been given towards their living expenses (even if things have been paid for them rather than the money being passed on by them.) They have still had the entire £25k, just because they haven't had it in their hand doesn't mean it hasn't been given to them!

Somebody earning £25k before tax will have those same bills to pay but will have to pay it from what is remaining after they have had tax deducted from the £25k.

I do take your point though about those on benefits that are working still maybe having travel expenses/childcare fees etc. (though realistically many will have only one person working so there are unlikely to be childcare fees.)

sulkisu

Dollardog wrote: »

I have been really struggling to pay my bills for the last few months. I'm self employed and live alone, so no other income coming in. One of the jobs I was working on finished last December and we were all hoping it would restart at the beginning of the financial year but its not. Losing the income from that meant my income had halved. Then my other work also dried up for the last few weeks, although it has just started back again, and I didn't have any work at all for three weeks. I've built up some debts and have had to make arrangements to pay back which I am struggling to make the payments to at the moment until I find some other work.
Anyway, I do have a job that luckily, provides me with plenty of food, too much for just me and the dog. I regularly give things away to neighbours or get things for raffles/tombolas etc.
I got talking to a girl who was walking her dog on the local park at the same time as me and she was really struggling too. She is on ESA but has had her benefit cut to just £33 a fortnight, she can't afford food, I would imagine her rent would be paid. As I say, I don't have money but I do have plenty of food and felt sorry for her so I said I would take her some food the next day - she didn't turn up, nor the next day, nor the next. I did then see her and gave her four carrier bags of food for which she was so grateful. She insisted that she had ben there at the time arranged, but she hadn't been.
I started back at work last week and got her some more, went and put a note through her door to meet me on the park that evening, she didn't turn up. I carried the food down again for three nights running before I saw her again. I arranged to meet her again a couple of days ago - no show - saw her the next day and she said she had turned up but I was not there. We concluded her clock must be wrong because I know I was there at the time arranged. We arranged to meet again last night and I said to make sure her clock was right, she had over 24 hrs to get the correct time. I went to meet her with another couple of bags of food - again, she wans't there. Twice I have actually baked her some fresh baguettes and taken them still hot from the oven then had to bring them back.
Well, I'm afraid she has blown it this time, I'm not going to keep wandering round a park with my dog, hauling bags of shopping around for someone who says they need it because they are hungry but then doesn't come to fetch it. I should say that on two of the occasions when she hasn't shown, I have gone and knocked on her door with the bags but not had any answer either so had to carry them home.
That may sound harsh but there is only so much you can do for some people. She is short of money but she still buys tobacco for roll ups. Its her dog I feel sorry for, I was taking food and treats for her too and now she will also miss out because of her mum, although I might keep a bag of treats in my pocket for her as its not her fault.

Sounds like she wasn't quite as hungry or in need as she made out.