Famous Rich and Hungry

Georgiegirl256

Mr_F_Dorsetty wrote: »

Are you 100% debt free? I am so, do you for example get your hair cut?

You don't need to, stop doing that pay your debts instead.

A few years ago my husband got into abit of debt, so not me personally, but as we are a partnership, then it became my problem too, so I guess you could say indirectly I was I suppose? Yes, I did get my hair done etc....the difference being, we could still afford to pay off the credit cards, we didn't have to stop paying them, but if it was a choice between having to pay them or getting my hair done, well it's obvious I would choose the payment on the CC, as getting your hair done isn't essential. The point being that if I couldn't afford to get my hair done, but did it anyhow at detriment to the debt, then I wouldn't expect anyone else to pay that debt for me....it's a matter of priorities.

Now I'm not being 'funny' but to me you're really missing the point and are back at pointing the finger... they are like that because it is their fault. Poor people shouldn't have any life choices or any pleasurable moments they should in fact just be poor and grateful.

Not being 'funny' either, but it appears you are missing my point, I am not saying that 'poor' people shouldn't have choices, just that they should know their priorities....which IMO doesn't include cigarettes, drink or tattoos they can I'll afford.

Personally I also have an issue with people saying "Well, you're given money and I have an issue with how they spend it"

Again, not saying that. You're totally missing the point.


In the nicest possible way, your comments smack wholly of someone who has never been there, seen it and done it. Do 'they' as you have it, smoke and drink? Yes they do. Though if you had the stress of being dirt poor and being seen as 'scum' with little control of your life, then you just might smoke and drink heavily as well.

Actually I have been 'there' as you put it. I have been on JSA twice, and have been very grateful of it. The amount of people who are that 'stressed' by it that it's turned them to smoke and drink is I'm imagining a small majority.

The point I'm trying to make that you don't seem to understand is that when faced with choices such as 'do I feed myself and my family?' or 'do I go down the offy?' Which one do you think is the sensible answer? All I'm saying is that if it's the second one, why should other people pay for their lack of priorities?

paulineb_2

Georgiegirl256 wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make that you don't seem to understand is that when faced with choices such as 'do I feed myself and my family?' or 'do I go down the offy?' Which one do you think is the sensible answer? All I'm saying is that if it's the second one, why should other people pay for their lack of priorities?

The thing is, programmes like these highlight a certain section of people who are unemployed and not coping very well.

Im sure there are some really heartbreaking stories out there with people who have lost jobs, got into problems money wise, people who have waited months for benefits to be sorted out.

We are never going to know how many people out there are reckless with the money they have and those who do ok.

When I was in work, I got on with it, was glad to have the work and when I signed on I also got on with it.

What other people did didnt impact on my life, I was too busy trying to deal with my own issues.

I try and channel what I can do to try and help other people who need a hand up and try and change things if I can.

If people want to !!!! their giro up against a wall, theres not much I can do about it, god knows I tried long enough to support people in the job I did previously, sometimes it was like bashing my head off a brick wall.

I do think the people out there who genuinely need support far outnumber the I have an easy life on benefits brigade.

Mr_F_Dorsetty

Georgiegirl256 wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make that you don't seem to understand is that when faced with choices such as 'do I feed myself and my family?' or 'do I go down the offy?' Which one do you think is the sensible answer? All I'm saying is that if it's the second one, why should other people pay for their lack of priorities?

That's the whole point isn't it, the point you miss - I am not missing anything as this is partly what I used to do for a living at one point . Both my wife and I are members of the BPS, British Psychological Society, a professional body.

Now we see two things in your comment:

* As I have professional qualifications in this subject, sociology and psychology, instantly your view is lessened. I can talk facts whilst you talk opinion - this is how things disseminate down the tree of life.

* You are upset or deeply irritated because I have dared to question the validity of what you have said. You then try to empower your position by claiming common ground with those you talk about. Yet you have no common ground as you happily still question what 'Other' people do and you keep on doing it.

You can be pee'd off at me (very broad shoulders, don't care) But should they not be pee'd off at you? Or are they too poor to count? Are they dismissed as I dismiss you? :cool:

Not so nice when you're the underling is it? You can shout, scream and jump up and down, no one actually cares apart from 'people like you' (PLU as it gets termed).

Those who are your PLU will agree with you, but I don't and people in a lower social strata won't either.

Now you've asked me a question... can I make a decision about what it is the best way to spend money?

Well, I come from a wealthy family, total silver spoon childhood, private education, ex-company director blah blah blah... Yes, I would be able to choose food over booze. But then I would actually choose a book for my child over food for myself if it were a choice I had to make.

My position of being unable to afford food and books in sufficient quantities would be my fault not that of my child. There is no way would I ever make my child feel 'poor'.

I know this because of what I learnt as a child from observing and listening to my parents. My father was a retired Major, WW2 hero, local councillor, Chairman of the local area Conservative party and successful businessman and so on... that is where I learnt what life was all about.

But if I go on to some ultra rough estate, anywhere in the UK, where a child is maybe the 5th or 6th generation to live on benefits and who has a teenage mum who knows nothing herself about life - what does that child learn?

We know that by age 3, that child is already so hugely disadvantaged it will 99.999% never catch up with it's middle class peers and is destined to a life of under achievement and failure.

So I may as well say to those people don't drink, buy the kid a book and say it in Cantonese Chinese. It'd be comprehended just as well as it would said in English.... they wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about. What's a book when you're semi illiterate?

But it is also a fact that if I told you Georgiegirl256, that you could ONLY talk Cantonese if you wished to do anything in life which was worthwhile - you're be in immediate and very serious trouble.

How I would understand life from my childhood is a complete universe away from how a child from a 'poor' family perceives life. Now, I can see what happens and how it happens because I have been educated in the subject and to some very small extent, lived it. But I couldn't get it 100% right because I knew I would escape.... these people know they never will.

I remember talking to one lady who had two young kids. A single mother of about age 22 yrs old who lived on a really nasty estate. She was telling me how worried she was about her kids growing up there so I said to her "Why don't you move?.

She just looked at me blankly. She had no idea she could move, it simply never crossed her mind and never would. From day one at home, at school, the way society has reacted to her, the way the benefits system treats everyone as a liar... all that accumultates to mean she has been bred to fail and now so have her kids.

The question you've asked of me, that lady doesn't even understand, let alone understand the answer.

That is what you miss entirely - they are where they are and do not even understand the question because you and those like you do not value them; they are the 'Others'.

Deanied

Mr_F_Dorsetty wrote: »

Because poor people are just like 'us' just with less life choices and less social tools in most cases. Or how about if the poor person with the dog used to be a rich person who suddenly became poor? Are they do get rid of their dog?

In a word... YES!
If I were rich enough to own a luxury car, then lost my job or my income significantly decreased for some reason I would sell the luxury car and get one which was cheaper to run, use public transport or walk.

Of course I would have the choice to continue to own a luxury car, but like a pet it's an optional extra not a necessity. I would forfeit luxuries over essentials. Food, water and shelter are essentials, pets are not.

*max*

Deanied wrote: »

In a word... YES!
If I were rich enough to own a luxury car, then lost my job or my income significantly decreased for some reason I would sell the luxury car and get one which was cheaper to run, use public transport or walk.

Of course I would have the choice to continue to own a luxury car, but like a pet it's an optional extra not a necessity. I would forfeit luxuries over essentials. Food, water and shelter are essentials, pets are not.

You've obviously never had a pet. Or at least, not one you actually loved. Comparing an object, a car, to a living, breathing, very much loved pet who is part of your family...:cool:

claire16c

paulineb wrote: »

But if you arent feeding your kids properly, thats a budgeting issue. Cant just be down to pets, it costs me around £2-3 a week to feed my pets, much less than Id spend on food for myself. If someone really is that awful at budgeting where they have nil left over, Id find it hard to believe that they would spend that extra £2-3 on the kids rather than the pets anyway.

My cats have never cost me thousands in pet bills. I had one cat that had to be PTS 7 years ago, I had had him ten years before that and he had never been at the vet in his life. Two of the cats I have just now have been to the vet once each in 7 years.

Yes, some people have pets that need more expensive care, however, I had my pets when I was working full time, absolutely no way was I going to give them up when I ended up out of work.

I dont have insurance for my pets either and the reason for that is, my mum had every single one of her pets insured and every time a cat was unwell and she tried to claim, there was always some loophole. She even insured one of her cats who had an existing problem that she disclosed to the insurer and they said if he had that problem again and she needed to get him treatment, they would cover it. He did and they didnt.

If people have insurers who pay up everytime an animal needs treatment, fabulous, but you have insurance companies that dont and in that case, all you are doing every month is paying money out to a company to get absolutely nothing back.

Nearly all of the people on the show had budgeting problems. But they werent helping themselves by buying fags etc either.

The person I know is perhaps unlucky, and not the average but she had one cat hit by a car to had to pay for them to have an operation but didnt work so then got put down, got another cat which I think was the one that got the stomach problem, and the bill really was thousands because I was horrified when she told me, and she was just glad the insurance was paying, anyway it died as the problem couldnt be treated in very end, so they then got another cat, and theyre hoping nothing happens to that one!

The price of pet insurance is I know sometimes really high, but then I guess its just one of those things where if you think you need it, perhaps for a particular animal or whatever, then its a price you need to include when you are budgeting for a pet. Not just a couple of quid a week on food.

And its not always about having a pet then something bad happening and you not wanting to get rid of the pet. My DHs brother was on JSA for ages but thought it was totally fine to go and get 2 dogs 'just because'. He had no money to pay for them and they werent looked after properly.

neverdespairgirl

geoffky wrote: »

Can i just point out that a person is only ever allowed to use a foodbank on three separate occasions per year..
To be allowed to use the foodbank they must of been processed and given a voucher by what is called a gateway organisation such as the jobcentre or citizens advice..
They are given food for just three days and that is it...

That's not true for all foodbanks - some operate on their own policies and don't require a referral. I think you're right in relation to many / most of them, though.

neverdespairgirl

paulineb wrote: »

Sometimes housing benefit is counted in what people receive.

For example when the daily mail do a piece on someone, they include the HB in the figure.

When I was unemployed I got 71 pounds a week JSA, plus my rent of 55 pounds a week paid, plus my council tax of 50 pounds a month paid, I paid the water charge, thats what we pay in scotland, thats about 20 pounds a month

Technically, I was getting about £130 a week in benefits, but what I had in my hand was 71 pounds a week

Seems entirely right to me to include housing benefit.

If I work and earn £300 a week after tax etc, I have to pay my rent / mortgage. You wouldn't say I earn £200 a week because my rent's £100, would you?

So if you get £50 a week in your hand, and £100 paid towards your rent, your benefits come to £150.

mountainofdebt

Mr_F_Dorsetty wrote: »

That's the whole point isn't it, the point you miss - I am not missing anything as this is partly what I used to do for a living at one point . Both my wife and I are members of the BPS, British Psychological Society, a professional body.

Now we see two things in your comment:

* As I have professional qualifications in this subject, sociology and psychology, instantly your view is lessened. I can talk facts whilst you talk opinion - this is how things disseminate down the tree of life.

* You are upset or deeply irritated because I have dared to question the validity of what you have said. You then try to empower your position by claiming common ground with those you talk about. Yet you have no common ground as you happily still question what 'Other' people do and you keep on doing it.

You can be pee'd off at me (very broad shoulders, don't care) But should they not be pee'd off at you? Or are they too poor to count? Are they dismissed as I dismiss you? :cool:

Not so nice when you're the underling is it? You can shout, scream and jump up and down, no one actually cares apart from 'people like you' (PLU as it gets termed).

Those who are your PLU will agree with you, but I don't and people in a lower social strata won't either.

Now you've asked me a question... can I make a decision about what it is the best way to spend money?

Well, I come from a wealthy family, total silver spoon childhood, private education, ex-company director blah blah blah... Yes, I would be able to choose food over booze. But then I would actually choose a book for my child over food for myself if it were a choice I had to make.

My position of being unable to afford food and books in sufficient quantities would be my fault not that of my child. There is no way would I ever make my child feel 'poor'.

I know this because of what I learnt as a child from observing and listening to my parents. My father was a retired Major, WW2 hero, local councillor, Chairman of the local area Conservative party and successful businessman and so on... that is where I learnt what life was all about.

But if I go on to some ultra rough estate, anywhere in the UK, where a child is maybe the 5th or 6th generation to live on benefits and who has a teenage mum who knows nothing herself about life - what does that child learn?

We know that by age 3, that child is already so hugely disadvantaged it will 99.999% never catch up with it's middle class peers and is destined to a life of under achievement and failure.

So I may as well say to those people don't drink, buy the kid a book and say it in Cantonese Chinese. It'd be comprehended just as well as it would said in English.... they wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about. What's a book when you're semi illiterate?

But it is also a fact that if I told you Georgiegirl256, that you could ONLY talk Cantonese if you wished to do anything in life which was worthwhile - you're be in immediate and very serious trouble.

How I would understand life from my childhood is a complete universe away from how a child from a 'poor' family perceives life. Now, I can see what happens and how it happens because I have been educated in the subject and to some very small extent, lived it. But I couldn't get it 100% right because I knew I would escape.... these people know they never will.

I remember talking to one lady who had two young kids. A single mother of about age 22 yrs old who lived on a really nasty estate. She was telling me how worried she was about her kids growing up there so I said to her "Why don't you move?.

She just looked at me blankly. She had no idea she could move, it simply never crossed her mind and never would. From day one at home, at school, the way society has reacted to her, the way the benefits system treats everyone as a liar... all that accumultates to mean she has been bred to fail and now so have her kids.

The question you've asked of me, that lady doesn't even understand, let alone understand the answer.

That is what you miss entirely - they are where they are and do not even understand the question because you and those like you do not value them; they are the 'Others'.

I wish I could shake your hand as I've been saying this for years.

It frustrates the **** out of me when I hear youngsters around me have no ambition or believe that they can't achieve their dreams simply because of where they live - regardless of the fact that a world famous scientist came from my neck of the woods.

I'm guessing that more than 50% of the battle is the parent's expectations (I wouldn't go as far as to say there's a lack of support)

And nearly 100% of the time the main reason given for the lack of ambition is how could a boy/girl from around here ever become x,y or z - talk about being determined to fail even before you've started

Deanied

*max* wrote: »

You've obviously never had a pet. Or at least, not one you actually loved. Comparing an object, a car, to a living, breathing, very much loved pet who is part of your family...:cool:

Actually I have had many pets that I loved dearly. I simply value humans above animals.

I'm not saying the animals should be put down, just given to another owner so that those families can concentrate on their children.

It's not fair to have a pet that you can't afford to feed adequately or care for should it fall sick, however much you love it.