Another public sector pay outrage

Nikkster

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Public sector service is a vocation for many. They are taking advantage of people's good will. I dont mind if people pack a punnet for a living, I have done so myself, and chopped and changed jobs with abandon; but you expect better if you if you are serving your country.

I agree that many public sector jobs definitely used to be a vocation. I am less convinced now that they have been 'professionalised'. I also think that many (but by no means all) of the more 'vocational' roles are the better paid ones. How many people aspire to be a cleaner in the NHS (assuming you can find a directly employed one), or doing admin in a social services department?

Anyhow, my point was that the private sector does not guarantee a payrise. We don't have automatic progression up payscales either.

chewmylegoff

lindsaygalaxy wrote: »

There are bands put in place for public sector jobs to start people at a lower salary for the job until they gain more experience, skills and take on more responsibilities. They do not go on forever, are based on performance and eventually take you to pay at the level the job is supposed to be based on.

yes, that's exactly what happens in pretty much every other job (except you don't get the inflationary pay rise on top).

ukcarper

Graham_Devon wrote: »

It's a comparison that cannot be made.

We don't have an abundance of private police, teachers, doctors, fire services, nurses, planning officers etc to do a comparison against.

The other issue is a lot of the lower paying jobs have been outsourced to the private sector, and therefore, it makes public sector pay look higher.

I remember a thread in discussion time some years back now where people were comparing cleaners in the NHS to cleaners in the public sector. There was an outcry as to how much cleaners in the NHS got compared to those in the private sector.

The problem was, the article had referenced a infection specialist in the public sector as a mere cleaner. It was a telegraph article and they appear to have huge issues with the public sector. They then compared that infection specialist labelled as a cleaner to a cleaner paid by an agency in the private sector.

Unfortunately, these things stick and people keep trying to make comparisons where you can't really make comparisons. Public and private sector employees ultimately do very different things. What the public sector does, the private sector rarely does, at least not on a grand scale.

True I'd like to see a like for like comparison.

Bantex_2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Public sector workers do the most important jobs. Many people in the private sector pack punnets or work for WH Smith.

You are not comparing like with like.

Yes, we should have more pen pushing civil servants. Not enough Sir Humphries in the country.

Graham_Devon

chewmylegoff wrote: »

yes, that's exactly what happens in pretty much every other job (except you don't get the inflationary pay rise on top).

Is it?

Do you have any examples?

Were not talking about "working up the career ladder" here. Were talking about having 8 pay levels for the same job.

The idea was always to save money by the new starter starting on lower pay.

If you work in Tesco as an example, you are paid a set amount for the job you do. You don't start on a lower wage and then after 6-8 years finally reach the going rate for the job.

bigheadxx

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Public sector workers do the most important jobs. Many people in the private sector pack punnets or work for WH Smith.

You are not comparing like with like.

This is typical of so many public sector "I am more important than you" attitudes and why you need to come back down to earth. Everybody holds the menial jobs in disdain but they are a necessity to daily life. I wonder how many public sector workers would be packing punnets if we didn't have such a bloated state.

Witless wrote: »

I wonder if you have any idea what those pensions cost the employee in contributions?

Not the freebie you seem to think.

As for the 'gold plated' - don't believe all you hear: the change from RPI to CPI makes quite a difference.

But hey ... let's jump on the 'bash the public sector' bandwagon - it's easier than looking where the money actually went!

The change to CPI is going to have the most significant impact which many in the public sector don't realise.

The pension costs them very little compared to its value and of course they pay lower national insurance.

lindsaygalaxy wrote: »

There are bands put in place for public sector jobs to start people at a lower salary for the job until they gain more experience, skills and take on more responsibilities. They do not go on forever, are based on performance and eventually take you to pay at the level the job is supposed to be based on.

Some go on for years. They were a clever way of effectively getting a double pay rise under the last Labour government. I doubt the unions would wear their members not getting the full whack from day one and these "starting rates" are higher than private sector wages anyway.

Graham_Devon

And I do wish the public and private sector weren't at loggerheads in scenarios like this.

The public sector needs the private sector and vice versa. Both work hand in hand in many situations. Both would be nothing without the other.

Very few people get rich out of the public sector. Some ultimately get very rich, but that's the very few.

Many in the public sector put themselves in harms way every day in order to protect, serve, or help others.

Be it a nurse getting a needlestick infection and picking up a nasty virus from a drunken, drugged up idiot shes trying to help. Be it a police officer getting severly injured or killed. Be it a firefighter putting their life at risk to save yours and your family or be it our servicemen, literally offering their lives.....

...Who do you all turn to in your time of need, whether it's being ill, out of a job, at risk of violence or buglary....

....I just don't understand why there is so much hatred against these people. I don't see as much hatred for the private sector, bar those on what others see as obscene salaries holding us all to ransom....high up bankers.

All of those who bash the public sector are quite welcome to work within it if it's such a good thing. But the simple fact is, it's not, hence you stick to the private sector.

Bantex_2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

And I do wish the public and private sector weren't at loggerheads in scenarios like this.

The public sector needs the private sector and vice versa. Both work hand in hand in many situations. Both would be nothing without the other.

Very few people get rich out of the public sector. Some ultimately get very rich, but that's the very few.

Many in the public sector put themselves in harms way every day in order to protect, serve, or help others.

Be it a nurse getting a needlestick infection and picking up a nasty virus from a drunken, drugged up idiot shes trying to help. Be it a police officer getting severly injured or killed. Be it a firefighter putting their life at risk to save yours and your family or be it our servicemen, literally offering their lives.....

...Who do you all turn to in your time of need, whether it's being ill, out of a job, at risk of violence or buglary....

....I just don't understand why there is so much hatred against these people. I don't see as much hatred for the public sector, bar those on what others see as obscene salaries holding us all to ransom....high up bankers.

The majority of the public sector are not doing these types of job, but are just in admin.

Graham_Devon

Bantex wrote: »

The majority of the public sector are not doing these types of job, but are just in admin.

These jobs need admin doing.

People are not sat on their rears doing nothing. I promise you.

There is however a HUGE amount of waste in the public sector and a HUGE amount of bods running around doing admin jobs etc that are all part of that waste.

A hell of a lot of it is due to politicians.

It may be a waste of cash, but that's not the fault of the public sector workers. It's the fault of politicians constantly changing things and coming up with idiotic schemes in order to buy votes.

Similarly the private sector is ripping the public sector off chronically in some areas. You only have to utter PFI to see that. Something created by the private sector causing waste in the public sector, not only in monetry terms, but staff on the ground. No win no fee lawyers wasting huge amounts of the public sectors time. Developers putting in plans and then changing them "playing the game" as they call it, wasting huges numbers of hours for the planning teams.

It's not a one way street. The private sector gets a lot of of this publis sector "waste" and often creates it for profit.

Generali

Bantex wrote: »

The majority of the public sector are not doing these types of job, but are just in admin.

The MOD employs more pen pushers (mouse pushers these days? ) than fighting people. Crazy.