Another public sector pay outrage

grizzly1911

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Also ask about staff sickness rates, how many are off for long periods. In the NHS there's an entitlement to full pay for months. Something which is so obviously abused.

In two trusts I have knowledge of Occupational Health now vociferously police absence for both repeat minor issues and more serious accidents and invasive surgical cases.

There is no doubt some abuse as in all large organisations.

Poor management strategy is often the cause of people starting to malinger.

Thrugelmir

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Poor management strategy is often the cause of people starting to malinger.

Difficult to sack people in the NHS. I was surprised of the outcome of some cases I've heard about.

NHS like many public sector organisation needs to come into the 20th century. Both from a management and employee perspective.

Tromking

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Difficult to sack people in the NHS. I was surprised of the outcome of some cases I've heard about.

NHS like many public sector organisation needs to come into the 20th century. Both from a management and employee perspective.

Its changing, but you have to be pragmatic on staff sickness and attendance policy in the public sector. Private sector style 'hire and fire' can be counter productive when there is a stressful and sometimes dangerous job to be done by an expensively trained public servant.

J_i_m

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Difficult to sack people in the NHS. I was surprised of the outcome of some cases I've heard about.

NHS like many public sector organisation needs to come into the 20th century. Both from a management and employee perspective.

There is that perspective.

But there are also a lot of conflicting demands and standards to meet. Many of which actually contradict each other.

And since complaints quite rightly have to be taken very seriously, the NHS need to be very sure that a particular member of staff is guilty of wrong doing or malpractice.

Because it's a sad fact that many people extragevate or even lie when complaining simply because they want to get at a particular member of staff.

If you knew what it was like to be falsely accused or some abuse of some kind, hauled over the coals and then suspended, only for everyone to later learn that the customer completely made it up because they were cross about waiting for something that ultimately the member of staff had very little personal responsibility for, then you'd be quite grateful of the difficulty in "sacking" NHS staff.

It's ridiculously easy to file a false complaint, and do damage to an innocent member of staff, although obviously considering the responsibility of the NHS role and the potential vulnerability of the customer all complaints have to be taken seriously no matter how trivial so that genuine offenders do get disciplined and struck off.

Remember if NHS staff do something wrong it could have a direct impact on someone's well being. It's not quite the same thing as J.Bloggs at TESCOS making a mistake whilst scanning your shopping

People realise that, and manly manipulate and abuse that fact.

Heyhosilver

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth wrote: »

What does the government provide for the punnet truck driver?

House, no, probably private HA
Medical care, no, probably BUPA scheme
Bins emptiesd, no, probably SerCo, pricate ciompany
Schooling, no, probably an acedamy, charitable trusts
Dentists, what is one of them (private)
Pension, no, and they are squirming even more out of that
Effective corporation tax collection, forget!

To demonstrate the futility of your argument.


Serco does not provide the emptying of the bins. They are contracted by the public sector paid for by taxation. They don not do it for nothing. Alright you could envisage that your bin was emptied by a private firm and you paid them directly but the sectors are interdependent unless you want to do this. Then you need to consider how to pay for the bin collection of those unable to afford the collection charges. Or the rubbish gets left in the street.


Not everything needs to be provided by a public sector I agree but as a society we need to make choices. When the snow falls do want council staff to grit the roads, or fund a private firm to grit the roads. Or are you going pass the hat around and arrange it yourself for the journey you want to make?

Yorkie1

N1AK wrote: »

The majority of the people where I work have received two 1% increases over the last 4 years. They're working hard producing food, which you may think isn't important but I quite like being able to eat, and no less worthy of pay-rises than nurses etc but have had a considerably worse deal over the last 4 years.

I try not to subscribe to the private v public sector bashing on here as I agree with others that in each sector there are hard workers and skivers, well paid and poorly paid.

Yes, public sector pensions are among the best in the country and will remain so even after the changes due next year. But some of the comparisons about levels of pay are not easily done, as others have pointed out. The lowest levels of grades frequently no longer exist in the public sector because they have been outsourced. Therefore, the average pay of those who are left is automatically higher.

I understand that, increasingly, long pay scales are becoming obsolete because of an employment tribunal (?) judgment in recent years saying that they were unfair. In my sector of the public sector, it takes no more than 5 or 6 years to reach the top of the grade, with often no prospect of any promotions being available.

I had several years of 0% pay rise, followed by 1% last year and anticipate the same this year. I am not complaining because I am still paid what I consider to be a fair wage. And when I look at comparable jobs in the private sector, 10 years ago they were paid more - but many are reliant on government pay rates which have decreased by 30-40% in that decade. So, whilst my income has decreased in actual as well as real terms over the past 5 years (NI, tax, pension), my comparators have gone down even further.

grizzly1911 wrote: »

One step closer to performance related pay which will, in turn hold base salary and associated pension down further in due course.

I hear that PRP is imminent either this coming financial year, or phased in into the next. Automatic pay progression will end.

stardoman wrote: »

There are so many advantages of working in the public sector from higher salaries, better pensions, more holidays and more job security. So it really galls me when I hear these workers complaining.

Everyone's circumstances are different. Not all public sector workers complain, but surely they should not be prohibited from expressing a view about their personal circumstances just because there is someone worse off? By the same token, many private sector employees (possibly even including yourself) would accordingly have no right to complain because there will almost always be another private sector person worse off.

No sector has a monopoly on being adversely affected.

adouglasmhor

J_i_m wrote: »

The East India Company, and empire in general was the first thing which struck my thoughts as well.

Push your trade upon others and when they refuse shoot and bayonet them until they submit.

East India Company was a private company, it only had shareholders and it wasn't the government.

Thrugelmir

Tromking wrote: »

Its changing, but you have to be pragmatic on staff sickness and attendance policy in the public sector. Private sector style 'hire and fire' can be counter productive when there is a stressful and sometimes dangerous job to be done by an expensively trained public servant.

Funniest story I've heard was a nurse on long term sick. Anyway a Matron at the same hospital arranged some driving lessons for her husband. When the BSM instructor arrived and knocked on the door. You can guess it was.

I comment from my own experiences. And yes the public sector is cushy. Though I agree the culture is changing in some areas but it is a slow process. Most change is occurring where external management is being appointed. With a far more commercial approach. Totally outsmarting the old Union guard who thought that were invincible.

Likewise I hear many stories about the Nationwide. People are driven hard with targets for output etc. Yet the Company still ranks 11th in the best non profit companies to work for. So possible to achieve a balance.

Thrugelmir

Tromking wrote: »

In my own 'sphere' local managers have recently banned people on their rest days from undertaking overtime duties out of area such is their worry about staff tiredness.
No way to run a public service I would suggest.

There are nurses that have fallen asleep on night shifts because they've working elsewhere during the day. A frightening thought. Given the low number on duty at night.

Running_Horse

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Public sector workers do the most important jobs. Many people in the private sector pack punnets or work for WH Smith.

You are not comparing like with like.

If it wasn't for the things I make at work many people on this forum would be dead. I took a 10% pay cut to keep my job in this country, so 1% sounds pretty good. I also recently had my pension replaced by something called a stakeholder scheme, which I will happily swap for yours.