Another public sector pay outrage

N1AK

ruggedtoast wrote: »

What I am trying to point out, is that without the public sector there would be no roads, no one to make punnets in the first place and no functioning economy with which to pecuniarise them.

Roads existed before the government funded them. The railways were heavily developed and extensive across the world before governments nationalised them.

The public sector is a benefit to the nation but it's incredibly backwards thinking to imagine that the public sector is somehow fundamental to the operation of the private sector.

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth

ruggedtoast wrote: »

OK I think maybe we are getting too focused on the punnets, the packing of the punnets on the pallets and the means of purveyance of the pallets to the purveyors of the contents of the punnets.

What I am trying to point out, is that without the public sector there would be no roads, no one to make punnets in the first place and no functioning economy with which to pecuniarise them.

Governemetn has to collect tax to work

Commerce occurs without tax, as for the roads, they are built by private compnaines. Some, like the M6 Toll are totally run by private companies, without the need for government.

In fact, governements restrict commerce, cause wars etc. Commerce does not!

J_i_m

Oh politics politics politics.

I work for the NHS, and being at the top of my band I get paid the "going rate" for my role and experience level. For me there is no automatic yearly pay rise because I'm already earning the most the band allows for.

A 1% rise, which when you consider that inflation is double that is still a cut in real terms, and after a few years of that you do begin to feel the squeeze as it were.

But it's not exactly easy for anyone, and many others are unfortunate to not get rises at all. I think it's churlish to get caught in an argument about who's more important than who or who pays for who debate because it misses the point.

The bottom line is that we're all important. We all have something to bring to the table and we all need to be able to pay our bills.

But once upon a time someone in power claimed that "We're all in it together". And then we hear how those people in power are now set to receive an 11% pay rise because apparently they "deserve it" and never mind the expenses scandal which proceeded it.

Well, my argument is that if they deserve it...then to "be in it together" we all deserve it, yes even Mr privately employed pallet truck boy as well.

Personally I can reluctantly cope with frozen pay, we are after all still in a recession of sorts. But that being so... It is still a bit of a kick in the teeth when the very few get handed generous rises or bonuses whilst everyone else is told to lump it.

If the government are struggling to justice a 1% pay rise for the NHS, then quite frankly they shouldn't be able to justify an 11% rise for themselves.

ukcarper

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth wrote: »

Governemetn has to collect tax to work

Commerce occurs without tax, as for the roads, they are built by private compnaines. Some, like the M6 Toll are totally run by private companies, without the need for government.

In fact, governements restrict commerce, cause wars etc. Commerce does not!

Do you really believe a modern country could survive without the public sector.

Sinhanada

wotsthat wrote: »

You must be in the less than 50% that aren't getting a 3% increment.

They're like a pay rise but Graham has forbade them being called a pay rise.

Actually no. Look at the Agenda for Change which contains banding - the increments are there but once you reach the top of your band you do not go to the next band. So the majority who have dedicated their working lives (past 7 years) to the same organisation are at the top of their band and do not get any further increases. The increments also have gateways that stop incompetent staff from progressing. One at the bottom of the scale and one at the top. You need to prove during your appraisals \ pdpr's etc that you have met the required ksf points.

As for generous pensions - again, working for less than what you can earn in the private sector because you believe in helping others and believe in the organisation you work for?

I'm glad you believe the Tory propaganda that is being spouted.

Support your NHS and it's staff. Believe me, private healthcare is certainly not better and a damned sight more expensive.

Rant over

stardoman

Graham_Devon wrote: »

The other stark hypocrisy is the line on bankers bonuses and bankers in general from the government.

Apparently to get the best you have to pay the best, hence they won't do anything to try and curb any of what some may see as excess pay or bonuses.

Yet when it comes to the public sector, apparently this no longer applies, and to get the best out of the public sector, you have to pay as little as you can get away with.

For all the talk of the recovery, this pay agreement is a reminder that we are still in dire circumstances.

But most people in the private sector are not bankers. They are ordinary people. Many have not had a payrise for years. My husband did not get anything, not even inflation, at one point for 7 years. He is not alone in this.

In the line of work I am in, I have seen fees drop dramatically over the last 5 years, so I have to do more now just to earn the same.

Every few years the spectre of redundancies raises its head and we worry about what we'd do.

There are so many advantages of working in the public sector from higher salaries, better pensions, more holidays and more job security. So it really galls me when I hear these workers complaining.

Sinhanada

J_i_m wrote: »

Oh politics politics politics.

I work for the NHS, and being at the top of my band I get paid the "going rate" for my role and experience level. For me there is no automatic yearly pay rise because I'm already earning the most the band allows for.

.

I used to work for the NHS and am still passionate about it. I fully agree and support the NHS wholeheartedly and agree - this 11% pay rise in 2015 has gone very quiet hasn't it?

It's about time the media stopped printing the propaganda spouted by this government and started printing both sides - we'd soon see who is in it together.

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth

ukcarper wrote: »

Do you really believe a modern country could survive without the public sector.

What does the government provide for the punnet truck driver?

House, no, probably private HA
Medical care, no, probably BUPA scheme
Bins emptiesd, no, probably SerCo, pricate ciompany
Schooling, no, probably an acedamy, charitable trusts
Dentists, what is one of them (private)
Pension, no, and they are squirming even more out of that
Effective corporation tax collection, forget!

nic_santorini

Rinoa wrote: »

Still well paid employment and an unbelievably generous pension.

And you still have time to post on MSE all day long.

Not that generous when the police pay in 14% of their wages every month for 35 years, that is a hell of a lot of money over time and with a cops life expectancy quite short after 35 years of shift work, may never reap what we put in. Other public sector workers pay less, the foreign and commonwealth office only pay 3% and get a lovely pension and sit on their !!!!!! all day.

The government report what they want to report -they are spin doctors. People joining the police signed terms and conditions for a thirty year service and that contract means little to them. They just changed the law to enable the contract to be changed. It will be interesting to see 65 year old cops chasing the 18 year old burglar in a few years to come. The government also know that most won't be able to do this at 65 and will boot them out anyway - a great plan for privatization.

Rant over. Wish people would get their facts right.

CLAPTON

nic_santorini wrote: »

Not that generous when the police pay in 14% of their wages every month for 35 years, that is a hell of a lot of money over time and with a cops life expectancy quite short after 35 years of shift work, may never reap what we put in. Other public sector workers pay less, the foreign and commonwealth office only pay 3% and get a lovely pension and sit on their !!!!!! all day.

The government report what they want to report -they are spin doctors. People joining the police signed terms and conditions for a thirty year service and that contract means little to them. They just changed the law to enable the contract to be changed. It will be interesting to see 65 year old cops chasing the 18 year old burglar in a few years to come. The government also know that most won't be able to do this at 65 and will boot them out anyway - a great plan for privatization.

Rant over. Wish people would get their facts right.

the value of a policeman's pension is about 30% every month for 35 years


do tell us the life expectancy of a policeman and woman just to set the record straight