Another public sector pay outrage

Graham_Devon

Generali wrote: »

My mate works in a prison. He goes off sick because that way there is a fair amount of overtime for everyone to share.

Well that must be what everyone in the public sector does then...

Not that I truly believe you here. Your hatred for the public sector shines through, just from your inability to take on any other argument, throwing pointless titbits in like above due to your overwhleming predujice.

ruggedtoast

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well that must be what everyone in the public sector does then...

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Generali

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well that must be what everyone in the public sector does then...

Not that I truly believe you here. Your hatred for the public sector shines through, just from your inability to take on any other argument, throwing pointless titbits in like above due to your overwhleming predujice.

You can believe me or not. I don't really care.

You are wrong in your assertion that I can't take on another argument and TBH that's a bit rich coming from you. I know few people that are as thin skinned yet happy to toss around insults.

ruggedtoast

That was a sneaky edit there Graham.

Now look fellas lets keep it clean, this is the internet after all; no one knows what anyone else is like and nobody's online persona is much like there real one anyway. Except for Bruno, and some of the Smeagols over on the forum hpc.co.uk.

Fella

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well that must be what everyone in the public sector does then...

Not that I truly believe you here. Your hatred for the public sector shines through, just from your inability to take on any other argument, throwing pointless titbits in like above due to your overwhleming predujice.

Surely no-one simply hates the public sector, for the simple reason that it covers so many diverse roles. Everything from police, nurses, teachers through to politicians & people doing pointless non-jobs in offices created by Gordon Brown to buy votes.

So I would imagine most people hold certain chunks of the public sector in high regard, whilst wishing other chunks would be abolished completely. Likewise most people would probably be very glad to see certain public sector employees receive substantially more pay, whilst wishing others would stop whining about how small a pay increase they got for doing their undemanding & essentially pointless job.

billchecker1

J_i_m wrote: »

It's all very well getting heavy handed with sickness. But you've also got to look at why staff go sick in the first place.

Nursing is a responsible job, they have peoples well being in their hands. Now imagine prolonged periods when you're working with vastly reduced staffing levels, overseeing inexperienced agency staff and coping with all manner of other problems that will still come irrespective of the staffing situation.

People still expect all the standards to be met, even when there are significantly less staff to cover a shift. Workload increases when they are less staff covering a shift. But nurses are human too and with the best will in the world can not work miracles.

The problem is that the management don't manage these situations well.. and so the stress and pressure on the staff increases and it's sometimes inevitable that the health of some staff will suffer as a result, and they'll go of sick.

It's not good form to push staff to breaking point and then beat them with a stick when they get ill.

If the management was better in supporting staff in the first place then less would be going sick, staff would then be able to deliver better service and care and money would be saved with less cover having to be arranged.

This is a true point and one which is forgotten about all too often. Speak out an you become vilified.

People need to open their eyes and use their own brain to see past the daily mail bias.

Do people seriously believe that all the public sector do is go sick and rake in massive pensions? Honestly the infrastructure would simply fall apart if this was the case. Remember most of the public sector has massively reduced since 2009 with more demand and less money.

The problem is that the government has won their progoganda war and most reasonable thinking people have been brainwashed to think the public sector are lazy and not worth the money.

Fine. Privatise it all then. We can get G4S, Serco etc to do it all. I mean PFI and railtrak were a great success weren't they.

Suddenly you will see the importance of your tax spend when they have the power to charge ridiculous amounts for small bits of work (ala PFI). Short term contracted, cheap agency staff with no pensions and holidays will be the employee of choice.


The public will get what they want and it will be too late then.

Graham_Devon

Generali wrote: »

You can believe me or not. I don't really care.

You are wrong in your assertion that I can't take on another argument and TBH that's a bit rich coming from you. I know few people that are as thin skinned yet happy to toss around insults.

Everything you have wrote so far on this thread has been of litle substance. It's the same with your other threads about nurses. MOD employees being simply "pen pushers" as if they are worth nothing. It's only there to antagonise.

I realise you don't get much critism on here. But honestly, some of what you state about the public sector is bloody awful.

ruggedtoast

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Everything you have wrote so far on this thread has been of litle substance. It's the same with your other threads about nurses. MOD employees being simply "pen pushers" as if they are worth nothing. It's only there to antagonise.

I realise you don't get much critism on here. But honestly, some of what you state about the public sector is bloody awful.

Good grief Graham. You are plucky!

J_i_m

In fairness to Generali bad eggs like that do exist within the public sectors, I've had the displeasure to have some of them as colleagues. There are people who will go to any lengths to manipulate the system to their best advantage no matter how unethical it seems.

In some parts of the public sector overtime has been really quite lucrative. In the NHS for example overtime rate is 1.5x your hourly rate. However, moves (at least within my trust) have been made to make overtime less attractive with the CEO's telling the ward managers in no uncertain terms that covering staff can now only be arranged via the bank agency, who pay staff their standard hourly rate. So there's actually that bit less incentive to accept overtime now unless you're virtually arm-twisted into it for the benefit of your patients whose care would suffer otherwise.

But to temper the extreme of throwing a sicky so a mate can take plum overtime, those people are amongst the small minority. Yes they do exist and they waste the public sector money, however they are not immune to being disciplined and dismissed if found to be doing wrong.

We use the bradford scale.. and this system will soon identify the offenders taking sneaky "sick days" off here and there. The policies and procedures kick into action, the offender gets pulled up on their sickness in supervision, referred to occupational health and then no sane GP is going to write a sicknote to what basically amounts to a paid holiday for someone who is very definitely trying it on. We can only self-certificate for a week after that it's down to your Doctors assessment.

The major problem with sickness isn't simply greedy people trying to manipulate the system. As I've pointed the bradford scale would soon root them out, and the conduct & disciplinary procedure then have more clout to bring them into line or dismiss them.

The worst problem is that the working conditions push staff into sickness by pushing ever increasing undue demands upon then. It gets to the point where a nurse doesn't have the adequate conditions or resources available to care for their patients and this has a direct impact on patient care and safety. It also stresses out the poor nurse on duty who wants to do the best possible job but has countless boundaries in the way of it.

I can tell you that it's no merry dance feeling that stressed and unsafe at work. It's not nice feeling that you are unable to do your job because of the lack of resources and the disportionate work loads. It's no holiday having acute stress and anxiety as the result of a poor, unsafe and ever worsening working environment.

And this is happening across the NHS.. because staff who were already stretched enough, are having to cope with increasingly tighter resources, less staff in each team and shift and proportionally more work to do as a result. It's not simply laziness it's safety for the patient.

Yes, I accept that in any sector if you half the staff and double the work.. people are going to feel the squeeze. Do that in a hospital.. and inevitably you're putting everyone at risk patients, visitors and staff alike. And this is what is happening.

The money isn't being spent on care.. it's being spent on politics, propaganda and trying the to mop up the resultant mess instead of fixing the cause.

ruggedtoast

I work in the Pub Sct and I dont get overtime. I generally work more hours than I am paid for and when I am travelling usually get one day back for every weekend I work. I am getting sick of it to be honest, there is no pay off, recognition or career progression for all this work nor will there ever be.

It used to be that the salary I got notionally compensated for this but it has been years now since there was any kind of pay increment in my role and I am considering jumping ship to the private sector but I still believe in what I doing in my job so am reluctant to abandon it.