'A' level good results: good teaching or academically able pupils?

Buzzybee90

pollypenny wrote: »

Unlikely.

Didn't you co an work, essays, coursework, reading analysis eye during your GCSE years so that your good progress was seen?

Your coursework would have contributed to your grades, so they'd hardly have been a shock.

SATs marking is notoriously bad.

This was a mock in early year 10, it was a mock mock, not the actual mocks if that makes sense. But as far as I recall there was only 2 bits of coursework. It wasn't progress really, I was always really good at English, I just had a new teacher and she just took her info from the target grades.

She was definitely shocked as she announced to the class that two people had exceeded their target grade by two and three grades (I had an A* and my friend an A), he ended up at a top uni and neither of us ever got one of those predicted C grades!

poet123

FBaby wrote: »

And that is my concern. I know it is easy to stereotype privately educated children, and different pupils will go to different private schools, but I don't see her happy in a 'rich' girls only school. Saying that, it would do her good to be in a more academically competitive environment. She is naturally competitive, but so far, she has always been top of her year at Primary and Secondary without much competition. She knows that there are other very academic children, but it's one thing to always be the 'one' and suddenly being not so special that way. That's something she will need to face if she was to end up in medical school.

That was my concern with my youngest son. He attended a good Secondary school but it is a huge leap from that to A levels. He won the school trophy for the best exam results, but that doesn't in any way mean he was the best, just that he was the best prepared, which he is, always. The college he is now attending is one of the best in the country, and as such attracts the cream of the crop from across the area. So far, he is holding his own and if anything seems to have upped his game to meet the increased competition. My point is really that for some kids that would be demoralising and they would be better suited in a less competitive more nurturing environment.

Our eldest son went to the other decent local college, that one does not get the same results but does not have the reputation for pushing its students. For him it was "emotionally" a better fit and he got the necessary results to move on.

Overall, out of the four of them three went to the academically pushy college and one to the nurturing college. Their results were broadly similar. So I would always say try to find the college that fits your child rather than make your child fit the college.

susancs

My daughter is in the first year of her faith based Voluntary aided school sixth form (year 12) and doing 4 AS levels (3 sciences and English Lit) and although she got top grades in GCSE she has found the step up a big one, especially in chemistry. She has two teachers for each subject which helps, although they cover different content usually. In her case she sailed through her GCSEs and got top grades with minimum effort, however at A level there is a lot of work to cover so teachers can't spoon feed them like at GCSE and she had to use her own initative more to consolidate learning. For example she does past exam papers every night and marks them using the mark scheme and then asks her teacher to go over anything she has lost marks on. She does extra questions under timed conditions from her revision books as well. On top of that she wants to do pharmacy so she got a weekend job in Boots and persuaded them to put her on the pharmacy counter and she is doing a healthcare (drugs handling) course with qualification with them that she studies at home and does online exams. She helps out with a year 7 science club in school for the voluntary work to help with her Uni application, plus does voluntary lifeguarding in the holidays at a pool in a hospital and has orgainised a Nuffield foundation research placement for the six week summer holidays. She also has to keep up with the latest news in relation to pharmacy so she can discuss this at any Uni interview She will be taking driving lessons in a few months when she turns 17, plays the piano, goes to the gym and she also has a busy social life. So although she is studying less subjects she has a lot more going on then she did at GCSE level. A couple of her friends are having to do more extra work as they are being encouraged to apply for Oxbridge scholarships, but they are the sort of students who could do the A levels just from reading the text book.

She will proabably drop English Lit after AS level and just concentrate on the three sciences at A2 level (she did English Lit at AS for the extra UCAS points as school advised this). To be honest she was a bit lazy during her previous school years as she got top grades with minimum effort and then suddenly found she had to work when doing A levels, so it was a bit of a culture shock for her. Her teachers no matter how good would have made little difference, if she had not developed a better work ethic. I also think that a lot of A* GCSE pupils almost get a bit big headed and it does them no harm to get low grades to start with a A level as it makes them up their game (Looking at first test papers I thought the teachers had given them some less clear questions to ensure they got lower grades).

Some of her A* GCSE classmates also now have private tutors to give them one to one tailored support in A level chemistry and maths so that might be an option for your daugher and less costly than private school fees.

My daughter's friend who wants to study medicine accepted a sixth form place at a girls Grammar school who have impressive A level results, but the results driven environment with less pastoral care meant this child's congenital heart condition became worse and she missed a lot of lessons due to poor health. She has been accepted to re-do the AS year at her old school (my DDs school) from September.

Although it is a few years away for your daughter, I know my daughter booked herself into several University information open day type events which she attended recently and a couple were for medicine( it confirmed to her that she did not want to do it) and she said it was useful as they showed mock good and bad interviews, gave tips for statements that could apply to any Uni application. She said The Imperial College in London medicine open day event was particularly useful. These events have to be booked in advance and get booked up quickly apparently.

This article may also be of some use when considering whether private school is the way to go.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9821490/Is-there-a-private-school-prejudice.html

I have a work college whose daughter got into medicine this year and she took her out of private school and put her into a good comprehensive sixth from as she felt this would this might help her gain a place doing medicine more.

JustKeepSwimming_2

FBaby wrote: »

No grammar schools in our county, only very average rated colleges, or private schools. Secondary schools are suddenly starting to offer 6th form, because they need money with the independent schools which have opened in the area. That includes my DD school's but it will be the first year they open, so will have no clue if they've got it right or not.

When will the school start to teach A levels? Do you mean your DD will be the first year of teaching? That would make me nervous...

Do they even have teachers qualified to teach to A level?

I think class size has a lot to do with it. And support staff within each class. I'm disheartened by how much time teachers spend with certain pupils, lesson after lesson, at the expense of the kids who are behaving. But that's a whole other discussion :rotfl:

neverdespairgirl

I'm sure it's a mixture of both.

I went to a very academic girls' school, where almost half my year (in the mid 1990s) got all As at A level.

I think that the environment does make a difference - for example, there was no pressure on me to go out socialising mid-week, because none of my friends did - we went out on Friday or Saturday nights, but no-one even thought of going to the pub on a school night. We all expected we'd all be working hard, revising and so forth, so it does make it easier to get on with it.

My OH went to a good state 6th form college, and got good A levels, but still found it a bit of a shock in our first year at uni, where everyone was as bright and hard-working as he was, he wasn't automatically near the top of every subject any more. I was used to that, having got below average GCSEs with 7 As and 3 Bs, at my school.

There was also no time wasted at school dealing with people who didn't turn up, didn't care what they were doing, hadn't paid attention, etc. So the lessons were all focused and interesting.

Of course the very brightest and best will do well wherever they are at school; there are lots more people, though, like my darling brother, who are perfectly bright and interested, but happy to be average and fit in. If those people are in a hard-working, academic atmosphere, they'll do much better than if they can coast along easily in the middle of a less challenging class.

Nual

Interesting thread. My youngest DD is in her 3rd year at med school. She attended the local comp, one with a very mixed catchment. I considered the more academic school about 1/2 a mile farther away, but that was because she was unhappy in year 8, then she got a friendship group sorted and stayed put.

IMHO smart kids will do fine despite the school, although pre 6th form she used to get very frustrated at the disruptive students in class.

No medics in the family so the journey to get a place was a bit of a mystery and the school was no help. BMAT, UKCAT, etc, she sorted it all herself and we only found out after the fact that there are special courses to tutor people for these.

Westward_bound

I think there is much good advice on this thread for any parent wishing to do their best for an academically minded child when selecting a 6th form (or any other schooling/education for that matter).

In an attempt to answer the OPs specific question, I have reflected on what I wish I had known at the time my daughter chose her 6th form (ultimately she stayed at the school she was at from Years 7-11, though we seriously considered others, including an independent day school that offered her a scholarship). This does not relate to a school's academic performance or perceived ability to ensure that a particular child achieves particular grades (impossible in my view), but the other areas of support that in my opinion are equally vital in this ultra-competitive environment.

Questions I would have asked:

- what experience does your school have of the applications process for Medical school and/or Oxbridge? Do you have a named member of staff who provides specific advice in this area? If so, what qualifications/experience do they have to do that?

- how many pupils have applied to medical school/Oxbridge in each of the last three years? How many were interviewed? How many received a conditional offer? How many achieved that offer?

- what links does your school have with Oxbridge colleges and /or medical schools? Do you offer organised visits either to official open days or on an informal basis? If you don't, does the local LEA? Do you maintain links with former pupils who are now studying medicine/at Oxbridge? Will my child be able to contact them so they can learn more about the course/lifestyle and perhaps be mentored by them?

- who writes and who signs the reference on the UCAS Application Form for medical school and Oxbridge applicants? Do you provide medical school/Oxbridge specific support and advice to pupils drafting their personal statement?

- does your school offer extra curricular support (eg talks by medical professionals)? If not, can you arrange for my child to go along to such activities at another local school?

- what specific academic support do you offer to pupils sitting UKCAT, BMAT and other Oxbridge "entrance" tests (there are a number of these for maths and science subjects in the main)?

- do you maintain a list of parents that work in the medical profession, and can my child access it to make the process of arranging work experience more straightforward?

- do you allow pupils to leave school during free periods if they have a regular pre-arranged volunteering session at a local hospital or care home?

- do you offer DofE Gold or other equivalent extra-curricular activities?

I hope this helps. However most important of all is that your daughter is comfortable in her chosen environment. A school can offer everything in the world, but if your child is not happy there then I suggest it will be nigh on impossible for her to achieve her true potential.

celyn90

Hermia wrote: »

Bear in mind that some private schools will push the bright pupils to do four A-levels. At my friend's school bright pupils were encouraged to do extra subjects. She even did an A-level alongside her GCSEs and then went on to do four more A-levels. It makes you wonder how state school pupils can compete as I cannot imagine many state schools can lay on extra A-levels for pupils.

The number of A-levels a student takes doesn't actually count for a huge amount. In my last job, we had to be very careful when selecting students - as our admission criteria were AAA - nothing more. HE institutions are fully aware that not students have the opportunity to study more than 3 A-levels so it doesn't matter a great deal. Same with timetabled type extra-curricular stuff, not all students have the opportunity or can afford to ride/trek/row/play an instrument/do DoE, so it can't really be used for selection. We also know that personal statements aren't often entirely personal (I only ever used these to start a conversation or to see if there was any concrete extra information in them, as you just can't trust schools not to have interfered with them.).

We also looked at GCSE grades though, and any module results that had come in.

Get work experience, do voluntary work, read and be able to talk about your subject. Be able to talk about things away from the A-level syllabus. When you are asked what you enjoy about your subject, don't just pick what you are studying at school at the moment (because some of us know that!). When you are given problems to do in your interview, talk - think out loud, show your reasoning, laugh, smile. Doesn't matter if you get it wrong, don't think it needs to be right - just ask for help, what matters is the process. We don't need to know what you know, that's what your exams are for, what we need are people who want to learn. Each University will display their admissions criteria - this is the best guide you can have.

I must admit, I don't miss admissions interviewing, I really don't - it's awful having to choose between a stream of bright, talented and wonderful young people, the majority of whom you'd just know would be fine. We put a lot of pressure on our youngsters these days, we really do.

I'm with poet123 on this - where would she be happiest studying? Everything else is fixable, but if she hates the environment, it'll not be a good experience for her and will make everything harder.

happy35

A neighbours son is studying medicine, he went to the local High School - although it does have an excellent reputation and gets good results and they topped this up with having a tutor for about 5 months prior to his exams


My son also attended the same school and he decided that 6th form wasn't for him, he has a Apprenticeship that will sponsor him right through to a Degree. I had hoped that he would attend the 6th form and I was also going to go down the tutor route to boost his grades, however he decided not to take me up on this offer !!!!


I have been told that private schools enter those pupils who they do not think will achieve high grades as independent candidates so they do not mess up their pass rates.


I think it will depend on what your daughter wants, does she want to remain with her friends? How does she feel about having to make new friends? These are things I would also be considering as if she isn't happy then she wont do as well regardless of the opportunity that she has been given

Katem

FBaby wrote: »

However, I have heard about pupils doing extremely well at their GCSEs struggling and ending up with average grades for their 'A' levels, so not clear how that would be besides losing focus etc...

My DD got all A/A* at GCSE but A levels (especially for medicine) are a different kettle of fish. Her ambition was to do medicine too. She went on all the recommended uni information courses/weekends etc and to a conference and decided it wasn't for her in the end. This was after wanting to do medicine for many years.

If you attend a state school, some universities look favourably upon this, and have special schemes, with guaranteed places/lower offers for state school pupils.