'A' level good results: good teaching or academically able pupils?

Fieldsofgold

FBaby wrote: »

Thank you very much for all the posts, it makes for very interesting reading and has opened my mind up, specifically in relation to my DD but as a wider view on education too.



Yes, it is a discipline we are close to, friends who are GPs, work-related etc... She started showing an interest whilst being a patient herself, at first I thought it was the attention, but now I can see she just really got a kick from being in the environment.

However, I am not thinking of her as a doctor at this stage, I am only thinking that she might still want to go to medical school after doing her 'a' levels and if she still does, she will needs the grades, so we will need to consider where she should go to get the required grades to get in.


Sorry for missing this. Funilly enough, DD suggested it herself and my initial response was 'I'm can't be losing my baby again so soon!' I won't say it is out of the question, especially if it was what she wanted to do, but that would have to be last resort.


What made me question their ability to do well with poor teaching is in relation to the full curriculum being covered. I heard about top pupils not doing so well at GCSEs when they took them early (because of them being academically ahead), but then not doing well because they had missed learning key aspects of the syllibus. Would an assiduous pupil be able to pick up that they need to study additional coursework outside of what they are taught in class?

I would venture that maybe a number of pupils consider medical school because they just happen to excel in maths and often such pupils are natually channelled towards considering medical school, but in reality, they are not cut for it, so instead use their skills in maths in a more suitable way?

And that is something we have already discussed, she knows it is very hard to get in and not all people who get excellent results do. She knows that her chances will be higher if she gains experience showing dedication and passion for caring for people.

When DD started secondary school, which is not reputable for supporting very able pupils, I did worry a bit whether my DD would get lost in the system. In year 7, it did feel that the overall level of her classes were hindering her, but by the end of the year, most of her teachers had recognised her ability and were given her additional work and some special attention. This is especially the casenow in year 9, she does extra work in almost every lessons in Maths, Science and IT. If this happens in comprehensive 6th forms too, then I think she would be likely to do well but I don't know if it is the case.

Some comp 6th forms can be good but please don't send her to one where they've only just started offering A levels as they're unlikely to have the experience or resources either for the subjects or to prepare students for university applications.

If you do consider the state boarding option, the info is here,

http://www.sbsa.org.uk/

Lots of students, if their parents don't actually live abroad, are weekly boarders as my friend's children were.

daisiegg

Buzzybee90 wrote: »

One other thing - a standard medicine degree is five years, not three, I believe.

Six, I thought? My sister's was, anyway.

Westward_bound

Medicine is generally regarded as the most competitive subject at degree level with the exception of Veterinary Medicine and possibly Dentistry. There are many hurdles to jump before your daughter can submit a competitive application to 4 university medical schools via UCAS (GCSEs; AS; obtaining relevant work experience; UKCAT; predicted A2 grades, extra-curricular activities, a strong personal statement and positive reference). If she chooses a medical school requiring BMAT then she will need to sit that too, but after she has applied. Even with a high level of self selection/moderation - the vast majority of applicants apply realistically, i.e. meet or exceed the minimum requirements - more than 50% of applicants do not receive a single offer. This is not meant to make you/her reconsider, just a statement of fact.

From her age I assume your daughter is in Year 9. Unless she is taking any GCSEs early, the most important years that will determine her performance at GCSE begin in September. My advice would be for your daughter to continue her academic development in as wide a range of subjects as possible, maintain her interest in medicine as a career, read widely (New Scientist is reasonably accessible), develop her musical and sporting talents if applicable and enjoy this time of relatively little pressure. All while working very hard. This will keep many career options open, not just medicine.

Once she has completed Year 10 and is beginning Year 11 she can assess more realistically her likely GCSE results, and her continued appetite for medicine as a career. This reassessment will need to continue on a regular basis at each of the key hurdles before application. And together with her, you can consider the most suitable sixth form if that is the path she chooses to take.

What qualifies me to offer any advice on this subject? Nothing except being the father of a state schooled daughter from a non-medical family currently reading medicine at Cambridge. She is there because she worked extremely hard - and continues to do so. I like to think my support helped her in some little way - but I don't kid myself that it reduced the huge, sometimes all-consuming, commitment required on her part.

poet123

I agree that the motivation of the student is key and that it can outweigh any perceived shortcomings in a college/school.

Of my four sons the cleverest is probably the laziest! Whichever college he had attended he would have just done the amount required to get through. The youngest may not be as clever but he is driven, which is why he got 12A/A* at GCSE, and already has a detailed revision plan and schedule written down for his June exams!!

He did want to do Medicine, but that seems to be waning now in favour of a Physics degree. So, things do change, they may well change again before the UCAS applications have to be submitted. As long as he follows his own path, is happy with it and has a career path in mind we will be happy.

seven-day-weekend

FBaby wrote: »

Since we are today on the subject of choosing schools and career choice of secondary school pupils, I thought I would raise the query I've been wondering lately.

My DD is 14 and we have just started to look at 6th forms. She has been set on wanting to go to medical school for 3 years and I am starting to believe that it might very well be the path she shall take. If that is the case, there wil be no alternative but for her to get all A or A* at her A levels.

Now looking at local college results, the percentage of pupils getting 3 A*/A/Bs goes from 2% to 42%. All higher percentages are pupils from private schools.

So my question is: Is it mainly because private schools attract more academic/hard working pupils, YES or is it because the level of teaching is really superior? Not necessarily Can a very academic, hard working motivated child be assured to do as well at a lower percentage college (ie. be in the 2%),Not necessarily or can their performance be directly affected by the quality of teaching/level of the class?Yes For instance, could an academic child be hindered because the level of the class is set lower and not all the curriculum is covered over the years?

Send her to the college with the best results. Also see my comments in blue above.

Brighton_belle

daisiegg wrote: »

Six, I thought? My sister's was, anyway.

It's 5, but many med students opt for an extra year between year 3-4 when they study an extra subject. At the end of that year they return to year 4.


http://www.medicalcareers.nhs.uk/medical_students/intercalated_degrees.aspx

Westward_bound

Length of course is one of the many differences between medical schools. But the OPs' daughter has plenty of time to consider these and other factors before she needs to make her choices. And much water will have passed under the bridge by then.

poet123

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Send her to the college with the best results. Also see my comments in blue above.

That is what we did, or rather we supported their choices, but that kind of college is not for everyone. Some of them are too "aggressive" for some students and are not that good at pastoral care.

mumps

Hermia wrote: »

Bear in mind that some private schools will push the bright pupils to do four A-levels. At my friend's school bright pupils were encouraged to do extra subjects. She even did an A-level alongside her GCSEs and then went on to do four more A-levels. It makes you wonder how state school pupils can compete as I cannot imagine many state schools can lay on extra A-levels for pupils.

My daughter went to a state grammar school and did 5 A levels and 1 AS she got As in all of them, this was the year before A* came in. She wasn't the only one as a handful of them did 5 but quite a few did 4.

conradmum

OP, bear in mind that at the top universities in very competitive fields 4/5 A* A levels from a middling school looks better than the same results from a top school. Oxbridge and other universities are fully aware of how well some candidates are taught and coached for interviews etc. and spend a lot of time trying to sort the genuinely able candidates from those who will flunk out once the pressure is off. I'm not knowledgeable about the details but generally there's a weighting system that favours students who have succeeded in average or below average schools. Each year there are howls of protest from parents who have paid £10,000s for a private education, but their children don't get offered places they want, despite predicted (and usually later achieved) 5 A* A levels.

On the other hand, beware of institutions so bad the teachers don't even teach the exam curriculum (it happened to me!).