'A' level good results: good teaching or academically able pupils?

daisiegg

Fieldsofgold wrote: »

I'm sure you're a good teacher and I'm not being critical but don't you find that statement rather depressing?

No not at all, because I am talking about maybe only 1% of the hundreds of students I teach who are just so amazing that they don't 'need' me. It's ok because the rest of them need me

claire16c

stardoman wrote: »

Exactly, it doesn't make sense and when she tried to say this at the meeting we had I straight away picked up on it. But this is what she has said to my son on Friday lunchtime. She told him that the subject he wants to do at University is very competitive and so he needs to broaden his horizons so that he has a backup plan incase he doesn't get accepted.

He really wants to stay on at his school but we seem to have a battle getting him onto the A Levels. The subjects he wants to do he got A*s in during the mock exams. But at the start of the course he was predicted to get Bs and they are going off the predicted grades rather than the mocks or what he ends up with.

Well thats ridiculous if he got that in the mocks! And Im not sure how a BTEC is broadening his horizons compared to doing 3 different subjects, very strange.

I guess you'll have to keep fighting!

daisiegg

mrcow wrote: »

I feel exactly the same about my A level pupils. (We probably don't even teach the same subjects).

I don't think it's "depressing" about the top end students (as someone mentioned above). I just try and make sure that I give them as much challenging material as i can. Some kids are just born to get 90%+ for whatever they study at A level. That doesn't at all mean that the lessons aren't relevant, or that they aren't learning anything!

Yes, this, exactly. I don't think it is remotely depressing. In fact, when I think of the one or two A Level students and couple of top set Y11s that this applies to, I don't feel depressed to think of them - they fill me with joy. I feel privileged to have the honour of teaching them. I don't feel depressed because they would be doing just as well with another teacher or, even, without much teaching at all. Some students really are just utterly exceptional. They are very much in the minority - which is why we still need good teachers!

GoldenShadow

OP, I would like to suggest that your daughter does consider other careers, but only because medicine is very hard to get into, and its good to have a back up plan for whatever reason if it doesn't happen. My best friend is very academic and wanted to be a vet, but she got rejected from all of her choices (you do BMAT or equivalent just like for medicine, its very competitive). She is now a (very good!) teacher, but sometimes even though people seem to have everything, they still miss out.

I always wanted to be a doctor. Specifically in paediactrics or plastics (had it all planned out ), but when I did my A Levels I had extenuating circumstances and basically found the sciences a lot harder to keep up with everything going on. And, of course, resits mean they don't want you, despite my unfortunate circumstances which weren't my fault in the least. My back up plan was always to do a Business degree, which is what I've done, but by having it there, it was a lot easier to figure a way out into something else when I wasn't getting the results I wanted.

I don't mean to make this sound as though your daughter can't do it, but just perhaps try and encourage her to think of a what-if scenario. There is nothing worse than being so young and determined and feeling like you're about to fall; trust me, I've been there.

Re A Levels, I personally feel a lot of it is the student ie. how grounded and committed are they. I had crappy teachers for my Business A Level but taught myself a lot and got an A*. I did my sixth form at a grammar school, and they were very hot on pushing the fantastic students as much as possible. Problem is, if someone fell off that radar from an A* to an A, they lost that extra help. I always thought it was a weird concept, pushing the top people even higher, but there was very much a middle category of not failing (which was less than a and not being top (an A*) which just got no real attention compared to the immediate ends of the spectrum.

Lots of parents pay for extra tuition for their kids now. It sounds like you have some good options available; maybe consider the prospect of some extra tuition if you don't feel like you've chosen the right place once she is there. Everyone does best in their own way, but its really nice to hear someone taking such an active interest and trying to find the right environment for their child.

claire16c

silvercar wrote: »

Standard amount, if there is such a thing, is to take 4 subjects in the lower sixth to AS level and then follow 3 of those subjects on to A level.

If you only start off with 3 subjects, you don't have the flexibility to choose which one you drop after one year. It also gives you a lower UCAS score as AS levels score at half the full A level rate; this is less important for high achievers.

Courses that are competitive tend to ask for 3 grades though and sometimes an additional 4th AS grade, not a total score - so it cant be made up of several badly graded qualifications.

And I know when I was at school, although you did the 4th subject as an AS level, not all unis even asked for it, some people made the 4th subject their fun subject so had no intention of carrying it on, or yes you could then choose what to drop and give you more flexibility but how is that better than doing a BTEC which is only 1 subject which is what this teacher was saying?

Plus arent they scrapping AS levels now anyway?!

Hermia wrote: »

Bear in mind that some private schools will push the bright pupils to do four A-levels. At my friend's school bright pupils were encouraged to do extra subjects. She even did an A-level alongside her GCSEs and then went on to do four more A-levels. It makes you wonder how state school pupils can compete as I cannot imagine many state schools can lay on extra A-levels for pupils.

I went to a state school and you could do 4 A Levels if you chose to. Not many people did though, it was mainly just a handful who were applying to Oxbridge.

But anyway the point is that whether or not you do 3 or 4, how is that worse than doing a BTEC!? Its a weird thing for that teacher to have said.

mrcow

Hermia wrote: »

That's great. At my school there is no way they would have allowed a GCSE pupil go into an A-level class or juggle someone's timetable to allow them to do four A-levels. You just had to fit in with the existing way of doing things. Looking back I can really see how the brightest kids were let down by our school. There was nothing to stretch them at all.

All schools are different.

In my school for example, pupils take GCSE maths in Y10 and then AS maths in Year 11 (if they're up to it), so they already have 1/2 an A level before they even secure their A level options. We also have other AS courses on offer for Y10-11 if they are more able.

Don't assume that everyone has to follow the same regime these days. Things have probably changed a fair bit from when you were at school.

pollypenny

daisiegg wrote: »

Yes, this, exactly. I don't think it is remotely depressing. In fact, when I think of the one or two A Level students and couple of top set Y11s that this applies to, I don't feel depressed to think of them - they fill me with joy. I feel privileged to have the honour of teaching them. I don't feel depressed because they would be doing just as well with another teacher or, even, without much teaching at all. Some students really are just utterly exceptional. They are very much in the minority - which is why we still need good teachers!

I agree with most of this, Daisy. I've been privileged to teach some brilliant, delightful pupils.

However, I have seen brilliant pupils who have been put off a subject completely when they have had the short straw and been landed with a teacher who has bored them to death. It's not destroyed them completely, but for that particular subject, yes.

FBaby

Thank you very much for all the posts, it makes for very interesting reading and has opened my mind up, specifically in relation to my DD but as a wider view on education too.

Have you talked with her about what she thinks the job is actually like?

Yes, it is a discipline we are close to, friends who are GPs, work-related etc... She started showing an interest whilst being a patient herself, at first I thought it was the attention, but now I can see she just really got a kick from being in the environment.

However, I am not thinking of her as a doctor at this stage, I am only thinking that she might still want to go to medical school after doing her 'a' levels and if she still does, she will needs the grades, so we will need to consider where she should go to get the required grades to get in.

I wonder whether you've missed the word "boarding" " in my post?

Sorry for missing this. Funilly enough, DD suggested it herself and my initial response was 'I'm can't be losing my baby again so soon!' I won't say it is out of the question, especially if it was what she wanted to do, but that would have to be last resort.

As a teacher (but only up to GCSE), I think it is a combination of the two. I think pupils who are truly gifted can do well with a terrible teacher. However, they must have determination and drive as they may end up doing a lot of the work themselves.

What made me question their ability to do well with poor teaching is in relation to the full curriculum being covered. I heard about top pupils not doing so well at GCSEs when they took them early (because of them being academically ahead), but then not doing well because they had missed learning key aspects of the syllibus. Would an assiduous pupil be able to pick up that they need to study additional coursework outside of what they are taught in class?

Of course, I'm sure that's not why an enthusiastic 14 year old wants to be a doctor, but it might be why a different health profession might end up being more suitable!

I would venture that maybe a number of pupils consider medical school because they just happen to excel in maths and often such pupils are natually channelled towards considering medical school, but in reality, they are not cut for it, so instead use their skills in maths in a more suitable way?

She's still at a top uni but it was heart breaking to see someone so - well, perfect - be rejected without interview.

And that is something we have already discussed, she knows it is very hard to get in and not all people who get excellent results do. She knows that her chances will be higher if she gains experience showing dedication and passion for caring for people.

When DD started secondary school, which is not reputable for supporting very able pupils, I did worry a bit whether my DD would get lost in the system. In year 7, it did feel that the overall level of her classes were hindering her, but by the end of the year, most of her teachers had recognised her ability and were given her additional work and some special attention. This is especially the casenow in year 9, she does extra work in almost every lessons in Maths, Science and IT. If this happens in comprehensive 6th forms too, then I think she would be likely to do well but I don't know if it is the case.

Buzzybee90

FBaby wrote: »

Thank you very much for all the posts, it makes for very interesting reading and has opened my mind up, specifically in relation to my DD but as a wider view on education too.



Yes, it is a discipline we are close to, friends who are GPs, work-related etc... She started showing an interest whilst being a patient herself, at first I thought it was the attention, but now I can see she just really got a kick from being in the environment.

However, I am not thinking of her as a doctor at this stage, I am only thinking that she might still want to go to medical school after doing her 'a' levels and if she still does, she will needs the grades, so we will need to consider where she should go to get the required grades to get in.


Sorry for missing this. Funilly enough, DD suggested it herself and my initial response was 'I'm can't be losing my baby again so soon!' I won't say it is out of the question, especially if it was what she wanted to do, but that would have to be last resort.


What made me question their ability to do well with poor teaching is in relation to the full curriculum being covered. I heard about top pupils not doing so well at GCSEs when they took them early (because of them being academically ahead), but then not doing well because they had missed learning key aspects of the syllibus. Would an assiduous pupil be able to pick up that they need to study additional coursework outside of what they are taught in class?

I would venture that maybe a number of pupils consider medical school because they just happen to excel in maths and often such pupils are natually channelled towards considering medical school, but in reality, they are not cut for it, so instead use their skills in maths in a more suitable way?

And that is something we have already discussed, she knows it is very hard to get in and not all people who get excellent results do. She knows that her chances will be higher if she gains experience showing dedication and passion for caring for people.

When DD started secondary school, which is not reputable for supporting very able pupils, I did worry a bit whether my DD would get lost in the system. In year 7, it did feel that the overall level of her classes were hindering her, but by the end of the year, most of her teachers had recognised her ability and were given her additional work and some special attention. This is especially the casenow in year 9, she does extra work in almost every lessons in Maths, Science and IT. If this happens in comprehensive 6th forms too, then I think she would be likely to do well but I don't know if it is the case.

One other thing - a standard medicine degree is five years, not three, I believe.

FBaby

I thought it was even more than that! She also knows that, we were laughing the other day she wasn't even half way through her education yet