'A' level good results: good teaching or academically able pupils?

Fieldsofgold

FBaby wrote: »

Since we are today on the subject of choosing schools and career choice of secondary school pupils, I thought I would raise the query I've been wondering lately.

My DD is 14 and we have just started to look at 6th forms. She has been set on wanting to go to medical school for 3 years and I am starting to believe that it might very well be the path she shall take. If that is the case, there wil be no alternative but for her to get all A or A* at her A levels.

Now looking at local college results, the percentage of pupils getting 3 A*/A/Bs goes from 2% to 42%. All higher percentages are pupils from private schools.

So my question is: Is it mainly because private schools attract more academic/hard working pupils, or is it because the level of teaching is really superior? Can a very academic, hard working motivated child be assured to do as well at a lower percentage college (ie. be in the 2%), or can their performance be directly affected by the quality of teaching/level of the class? For instance, could an academic child be hindered because the level of the class is set lower and not all the curriculum is covered over the years?

Higher standards and expectations will always pull up the achievements of those involved, for a variety of reasons.

As you don't have sixth forms with high standards in your area, have you looked at the state run boarding grammar schools?

Mojisola

Person_one wrote: »

How did the subject of colleges even come up when discussing a 14 year old? She's in year 9, surely?

Please, just bear it in mind as you go along, I'm not trying to criticise you but it was just tragic to see what this young woman went through.

If she's really set on becoming a doctor, it's not too early for her to join a group like St John Ambulance -
https://www.sja.org.uk/sja/young-people/cadets.aspx

I do understand your point about the pressure put on med students. It takes a lot more than good academic results to get through the course.

duchy

Ultimately I think if she's academically able and well motivated then it will go down to the "feel" of each establishment.

I know some of my son's friends by the end of GCSEs wanted to move simply because they wanted the freedom that a 6th form didn't offer. I know it varies considerably from school to school - but for example one of the best grammer school's around here insists on full uniform and rules without any differences to the rest of the school for 6th formers. To some kids it's a non issue-to others they want the no or more relaxed uniform, they want to be able to decide if they choose to spend free periods studying at home and not be obliged to be in school all day even when they have no classes.....or even to be able to leave the school at lunchtime.
Sounds like small stuff but it can be very demotivating -to *some* kids. Your daughter will probably have her own ideas -and to her - the bus ride may be worth it to her if there are other benefits that suit her personality and study style better.

Once you visit them all it'll probably open up all these pros and cons for discussion and she'll have a clearer idea what will work for her the best.

Person_one

Mojisola wrote: »

If she's really set on becoming a doctor, it's not too early for her to join a group like St John Ambulance -
https://www.sja.org.uk/sja/young-people/cadets.aspx

I do understand your point about the pressure put on med students. It takes a lot more than good academic results to get through the course.

That's actually a really good idea, its great experience but fun and social too.

Hermia

Private schools may be more geared up to helping kids get in to the best unis. My friend went to a private school and they had extensive coaching on how to write applications, mock interviews and the school had plenty of contacts with the best unis. At my school the teachers really had no insider tips for getting into uni and no former pupils had ever been to Oxbridge. We were just given UCAS forms and that was that.

I would always send a child to the best place available. I think being in that sort of environment sort of encourages you to achieve and if she wants to do medicine she needs to aim for the top. I wish such a place had been available when I was doing my A-levels. Some of the classes were a joke because there were students in the class who should just not have been there.

FBaby

Person_one wrote: »

Please, just bear it in mind as you go along, I'm not trying to criticise you but it was just tragic to see what this young woman went through.

I don't really want that thread to turn into this, but I really am confident that this is not an issue. I genuinely don't expect my children to take any particular path, as long as they do what makes them happy. My DD is much more ambitious for herself than I am. She has always been like this. She is always a mile ahead, hence already looking at Unis. My parents have done well for themselves but taught me that what matters is to do what you want and that's how I feel with my children to. The only thing I do install in them is that money doesn't grow on trees and that the reason why we can afford to do the things to do is because my husband and I earn a decent wage.

duchy

Hermia wrote: »

Private schools may be more geared up to helping kids get in to the best unis. My friend went to a private school and they had extensive coaching on how to write applications, mock interviews and the school had plenty of contacts with the best unis. At my school the teachers really had no insider tips for getting into uni and no former pupils had ever been to Oxbridge. We were just given UCAS forms and that was that.

I would always send a child to the best place available. I think being in that sort of environment sort of encourages you to achieve and if she wants to do medicine she needs to aim for the top. I wish such a place had been available when I was doing my A-levels. Some of the classes were a joke because there were students in the class who should just not have been there.

With the enforced "everyone stays in education or training til 18" I do think there will be more students who are only there because they have to be ........and from that point of view I'd probably be favouring the more "selective" option rather than something more "comprehensive" (with a small C) if everything else is equal.

Mojisola

FBaby wrote: »

My DD is 14 and we have just started to look at 6th forms. She has been set on wanting to go to medical school for 3 years and I am starting to believe that it might very well be the path she shall take.

Have you talked with her about what she thinks the job is actually like?

Several girls in my class at school wanted to be vets until they did some work experience at a vets. They had the idea they would spend their time being really nice to animals and having lots of cuddles from them. A couple of days of seeing the vets deal with very sick animals and distressed owners, fleas, being pecked and scratched by some "patients", helping vet nurses clear up vomit, feaces and pee made them face up to the reality of the job.

Is she interested in general practice or surgery or any particular area of medicine? There's lots of ways to work in health without becoming a doctor. It's worth her finding out about those as well.

FBaby

As you don't have sixth forms with high standards in your area, have you looked at the state run boarding grammar schools?

No grammar schools in our county, only very average rated colleges, or private schools. Secondary schools are suddenly starting to offer 6th form, because they need money with the independent schools which have opened in the area. That includes my DD school's but it will be the first year they open, so will have no clue if they've got it right or not.

That's actually a really good idea, its great experience but fun and social too.

Totally agree. She has actually took it upon herself to go to the local hospital and asked about doing a placement. The good news is that they do offer them and she would pretty garantied to be offered one, the bad is that she needs to wait until she is 16, which she is gutted about! She will be asking about doing some work in a local nursing home this summer.

It's good news to my ears that it would seem she is likely to do as well at a local 6th form despite overall lower results. It is what she would prefer and so would I.

daisiegg

Mojisola wrote: »

Have you talked with her about what she thinks the job is actually like?

Several girls in my class at school wanted to be vets until they did some work experience at a vets. They had the idea they would spend their time being really nice to animals and having lots of cuddles from them. A couple of days of seeing the vets deal with very sick animals and distressed owners, fleas, being pecked and scratched by some "patients", helping vet nurses clear up vomit, feaces and pee made them face up to the reality of the job.

Is she interested in general practice or surgery or any particular area of medicine? There's lots of ways to work in health without becoming a doctor. It's worth her finding out about those as well.

But why should she, if she is set on being a doctor?

I wanted to be a teacher. No one said to me 'ok but have you looked at being a teaching assistant, a private tutor, a dinner lady, a university lecturer...'

I have said before on another thread today that my sister wanted to be a doctor basically her entire life - from being a tiny child. She never wavered, never changed her mind, and she did it. If you had asked her at the age of 14 she would have been absolutely clear what the job was about. She could have told you the make-up of various different medical degrees and which she preferred and why. She could have discussed different specialisms quite confidently. We have no doctors in the family so she researched all of this herself.

It is perhaps rare but not impossible to know what you want to do at a young age.