London set to ban older private petrol and diesel cars

redux

teabelly wrote: »

Half the particulate matter is caused by brake dust and rubber from tyres. Exhaust emissions are only part of the problem. The former isn't being tackled with this at all. It would of course be ironic if a lot of the particulate matter was a direct result of the EU removing asbestos from brake pads...

It also means big events like London to Brighton will be effectively banned and anyone with a classic car that has correctly registered it won't be able to live in London.

Petrol cars don't produce anywhere near the amount of particulate matter as diesels do. Hence 2005 and newer petrol cars are a lot cleaner than their 2005 clattering diesel counterparts.

Tests in some cities have shown that well over half the particulate matter in the air is emitted by fast food restaurants.

Whether that applies in London and they haven't realised, I don't know.

If more than half of transport related dust comes from tyres and brakes, then surely it's impossible to assert that petrol cars don't produce anywhere near what diesels do.

I think the suggestion about post 2005 is a little tenuous as well. The actual Euro standards provide for allowing more CO HC and NOx aggregated between them to be emitted by petrols than diesels, especially carbon monoxide.

Of course the new cars that are measured are better still than the standards, in some respects

But as well as that older cars don't seem to be allowed to retrospectively qualify for standards introduced after the car was made

Thus my Citroen Xantia seems to be officially Euro 2, presumably as that was the standard when the HDI engine launched, but the official tests used to derive that show it would qualify to be Euro 3 and is only marginally out of Euro 4

Of course, older cars may be worse. But some will be better than later ones. My car has passed several MOT smoke tests on the first go. The limit is 3.0 units, which takes some cars 4 runs to produce 3 good ones.On mine the best was 0.46 on the first run

The Euro emissions categories didn't use to even cover particulate emissions from petrols, but do now on 5 and 6.

I think London is being too strict if they go ahead with this. Limiting diesels to Euro 6 is a little unfair as Euro 6 doesn't start until September, so everyone who wants to drive a diesel will have to buy a new vehicle, while the restrictions for petrols are more lenient.

A._Badger

This is what happens when you let hippies take charge. So much for Boris being a 'sensible' choice.

lincroft1710

teabelly wrote: »

There aren't any classic diesel cars though. They're all classic petrols so there is much less of a problem.

Mercedes Benz were making diesel saloons such as the 170SD and 180D, 60 years ago. Standard also manufactured a few Phase 2 Vanguards at this time and there was a small batch of Mk 2 Ford Consuls with Perkins diesel engines. In the early 1960s Austin Cambridges and Morris Oxfords were available with diesel engines.

And the 1949 - 1958 Austin FX3 Taxi (the one with separate wings and headlights) had a diesel engine.

But having said this it's doubtful if any have survived, except perhaps the FX3. I would welcome being contradicted on this point.

cepheus

Simon wouldn't make a good hippie!



Clean Air in London ‏@CleanAirLondon 5m
Follow us for news. London to ban diesel cars from most-polluted places 10 years after Berlin

vaio

dacouch wrote: »

LEZ for commercial vehicles was brought in prior to the Olympics which in effect meant vans/trucks built before circa 2001/2002 (I think) were either not allowed in or had to pay about £1500 for a filter to be fitted. It did not have a massive effect as most of the delivery vehicles are less than five years old.

I know a few businesses based in central London who had the filters fitted to their vans. As they drive around central London in stop start traffic the filters block up about every ten days. The way to unblock the filters is to take the van for a vigorous drive on a dual carriageway / motorway drive for 20 mins. So they end up having to make special trips out of London to clear the filters and waste fuel

yep, and LEZ is basically anywhere inside the M25. You can stay out, fit a filter or pay £100 a day (£200 for lorries)

A._Badger

cepheus wrote: »

Simon wouldn't make a good hippie!

What do you think he looked like in 1970?

gilbert_and_sullivan

Good, i only go anywhere near the horrid dump when working.

This will make it impossible (yesss) to go there for any other reason as i only run older cars, result, thankyou thankyou thankyou.

SailorSam

Perhaps Boris thinks if we can get rid of all the nasty cars, .......
I'll sell more of my Boris Bikes.

redux

cepheus wrote: »

Simon wouldn't make a good hippie!



Clean Air in London ‏@CleanAirLondon 5m
Follow us for news. London to ban diesel cars from most-polluted places 10 years after Berlin

I don't think he's being at all honest either

Most harmful emissions occur before the catalytic converter has warmed up

Until then the initial emissions of a petrol car are 15 to 20 times higher than for a diesel car - which is why diesel cars didn't even need catalysts for a several years after petrols did.

If the average speed of traffic in London is still about 8 mph, then engines are not working hard. Ideal operating conditions for the catalytic convertor to do the job properly may never be reached for a sizeable proportion of journeys.

So it seems rather unlikely that such a large proportion of nitrogen dioxide in London is due to diesel cars, 50 or 100 times as much as for petrol cars

They'd look a bit daft if they ban diesels and NOx increases

atrixblue.-MFR-.

why not just jump ahead and make center of London a cycle or pedestrian only zone, who cares about the small business that rely on HGV's as part of their trade, who cares about the HGV companies that main business model is based around center of London and out skirts trade.


sorry lets not ban vehicles that don't meet governments think tank guide lines lets ban stupid MP's that that actually want to grab money from us from stupid think tanks and stupid projected computer models graphs and remind this government that the human beings in this country have a basic fundamental right to travel unhindered whether that be in vehicular transport or on foot who are they to say upgrade or basically stay out of London?.