Would you expect work men to clean up afterwards?

stebiz

I'm getting some major works done on my house. So much so I've had to move out. Electrics, Central Heating, New Roof Trusses, New Roof, Bathroom, Shower, Doors, Floors,Plastering, All New Ceilings, New Gable, Kitchen Knock Through.............you get the gist. I knew that there would be all kinds of mess. But what I did also know is that SOME builders will get away with anything they can and others (most) are hard workers and are proud of their job.

I've had about 25 different guys around to the house. Rather than Bob the Builder who can do anything I've had tradesmen who are good at their job.

The big mistake you made is paying whilst unhappy with the job. I have paid high rates for a lot of the work (in my view anyway) and therefore I expect everything to be perfect. I've supplied skips etc and have checked the work and also had a building inspector check it before paying out. In many cases they've received an interim payment of 50%, 75% until I was 100% satisfied.

Only one person had money withheld permanently and that was because the job was done incorrectly and badly.

It is so much easier complaining prior to paying rather than after.

jennifernil

We have quite a bit of experience with tradesmen, having done (over 40 years) 4 extensions and had a complete house built.

Overall, the ones we had the most problems with were the plasterers, they do seem to have no care over how much mess they are making.

One property, I allowed them to come in the kitchen to get water to mix the plaster, made the mistake of not standing over them. Result was plaster dust over the whole kitchen. Apparently, they didn't just come and fetch water, they also tipped the plaster out of the bags and mixed it in my kitchen......obviously totally oblivious to the dust.....or more likely could not care less. You have to ask yourself why? Why do they think it does not matter.

Other tradesmen vary. We had some joiners who thought it was fine that they should bring a huge window for the extension through my lounge, while still wearing their filthy boots. I made them stop and take them off, they were NOT pleased!

The guys we had building our house were a pleasure to deal with, shoes off at the door once we had moved in.

Same with the guys coming to fix things at our daughter's new house. They would not even bring their shoes in onto the doormat!

Whereas the plasterer who replastered her boyfriend's kitchen left a right mess through the whole house.....but the plastering was very good.

lessonlearned

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

Like i say, if something can go wrong - it does with me. That isn't me being doom & gloom.

Don't worry - not everyone has the diy gene. And, as you have already mentioned, you no longer have your father to guide you.

I learned a lot just by simply watching my father. I also spent over 20 years running sales complexes for new build developers. I learned an enormous amount simply by watching the trades at work, talking to them and picking their brains.

There are short courses you can take in basic diy techniques and tool handling, usually around £150 to £200 for a two or three day course. I can recommend them. You will soon recoup your investment - not just the money but also the time. Some will run over a weekend.

They normally concentrate on the "trowel trades" i.e. simple patching and plastering, repairing mortar, building a simple garden wall or barbie, and tiling.

That should be plenty to be going on with.

I'm a bit of an all rounder with no especial skills. A "Jack of all trades, master of none". Technically that should read "Jill of all trades, mistress of none". I know my limits so I stick to what I know I can do and then leave the rest to the trades.

Unfortunately, as I'm now pushing 63 with a bad back and dodgy knees I find that although I know what to do I'm not always physically capable. So now I take a more supervisory role, teaching and guiding my sons.

JAS - you will learn the ropes as you go along.

Even if you never want to do any diy yourself it is still useful to know what needs to be done and how it should be done. That way you get to stay in charge.

Back to your present woes.

I think it's time you contacted the boss of the company you used and got him back to inspect the work. He needs to see for himself what has happened.

It's time to speak to the organ grinder, not the monkey. (i.e. the boss and not the plasterer who did the work).

Failing that you might need to get the work inspected by an independent third party - such as a surveyor or building inspector, although of course there will be a fee involved.

Try the company boss first - give him a chance to put things right.

Try to keep calm and not lose your rag. Remember the old adage - "lose your temper, lose the argument".

Hope you manage to get this straightened out.

lessonlearned

stebiz wrote: »

. I knew that there would be all kinds of mess. But what I did also know is that SOME builders will get away with anything they can and others (most) are hard workers and are proud of their job.

.

I think that most builders and trades do take a real pride in their work and will do their best for the client.

As always it's the minority who spoil things for the rest.

lessonlearned

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

It really was at a steal. It was up for £30k-£40k less than it was bought for, was in a very nice area, very quiet & a stones throw from where i live now. It was built in the year 2000 & no wooden boards with water underneath either The driveway had room for about 4-5 cars with a 20x10 garage too.

I know there's naff all we can do about it now, but doesn't stop you thinking - we made a mistake.

Ah the one that got away;).

Yes, there's always at least one.

When I bought my first property in 1976 I paid the vast sum of £6100 for a 2 bed cottage. At the same time I viewed a 4 bed, three storey cottage for £4500.

The bigger cottage stank to high heaven, the owner had dogs, cats, rabbits, budgies, parrots you name it - Oh and 3 children….. You could see daylight through the roof. I ran away because I felt intimated by the amount of work needed - nowadays I wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Today the cottage I bought is now worth around £125K, the one I let slip through my fingers is around £350K.

I did the same thing with a church that had planning in place for conversion. 1983 £25K - now around the £lm mark. :rotfl::rotfl:

You live and learn…...

JustAnotherSaver

stebiz wrote: »

The big mistake you made is paying whilst unhappy with the job.

This is where i was in disagreement with my wife.

Initially they wanted payment in full. I told her i wasn't happy with this & i wouldn't pay. She said she felt bad as she'd told them she'd "bring it round tomorrow".
In the end she reluctantly asked if she could pay £800 of a £980 bill.

We had the ceiling done & once finished i wasn't happy with some things. The door, the pile of rubbish that had been left & not discussed, just various things (namely the door). I told her i wouldn't pay.
We had a bit of a disagreement. She wasn't happy as she'd promised them she would "pay tomorrow" & would "feel bad ringing to say i've changed my mind".

There's been bits throughout where i've made decisions i normally wouldn't have, just for an easy life.
* We showed them the paperwork from the independent damp guy - mentioning anti sulphate washes, tanking solutions & whatever else that was in there & told them we wanted it done like that. They said they'd re-plaster the entire room & i'm still sure there was no anti sulphate washing going on. My wife was happy to go ahead but when i found they weren't doing it to the surveyors spec i personally would've pulled the plug i think.
* We got the keys in November, so it's been a while (admittedly we took a while to get going). I feel under pressure to get things done yesterday to move in. I would also like to move in, but it's making me rush decisions & make choices i wouldn't normally.
* I wouldn't have paid so readily.
* I wouldn't have been reluctant to chase them over matters. It was my wife who did all the contacting with them so rather than getting a barrage from both sides, we decided 1 would be in touch with them & the other (me) would be in touch with the driveway guy we had in. Every time i said this should be asked or that should be asked, she'd have a go at me & said she wasn't comfortable asking. So for an easy life i let it be.

I'm not trying to say this is all her fault, don't get me wrong. It takes two to tango :j Just that is what happened & this is what we have. Maybe i shouldn't go for the easy life so readily.

jennifernil wrote: »

Whereas the plasterer who replastered her boyfriend's kitchen left a right mess through the whole house.....but the plastering was very good.

Aye, i was told by others that a plasterer is the messiest guy who'll be working in your house.

lessonlearned wrote: »

There are short courses you can take in basic diy techniques and tool handling, usually around £150 to £200 for a two or three day course. I can recommend them. You will soon recoup your investment - not just the money but also the time. Some will run over a weekend.

They normally concentrate on the "trowel trades" i.e. simple patching and plastering, repairing mortar, building a simple garden wall or barbie, and tiling.

I asked him shortly before he died, whilst he was building our extension - how do you know so much?
He just laughed.
Go on then i said, how do you know so much?
About what he said. Everything. How do you know how to build, what to put where, what to cut where, what angle it needs to be at, how to wire that, run that from there to there with no problems, what level that needs to be at to make that work correctly etc etc.
You just pick it up he says.
Well i was almost 30 & hadn't picked anything up.
That's when he said - his work had sent him on plenty of courses where he'd learnt many things. He was a quick learner, very quick - only needed showing once.
Besides, he was a kid from the 40s when you didn't spend your days playing computer games as a kid - you went out doing. I suppose that's part of the problem these days. Kids don't "do" any more.

But that's too philosophical & negative

I think it's time you contacted the boss of the company you used and got him back to inspect the work. He needs to see for himself what has happened.

It's time to speak to the organ grinder, not the monkey. (i.e. the boss and not the plasterer who did the work).

I contacted this chap directly. My wife said when she was booking in the work he was replying the same day, sometimes within the hour. I emailed him Thursday night. I emailed him so that i could show him the photos. No response so far.

My wife raised a fair point. She said - if you complain about someone who's done work, doesn't matter whether it's this chap or someone else ... would you have them back to correct it? Your trust will be gone in them & they'll be unhappy you've had a moan about their work, so would you have them back? Would you want them back to correct it? Could you trust them to?

phoebe1989seb

jennifernil wrote: »

Overall, the ones we had the most problems with were the plasterers, they do seem to have no care over how much mess they are making.

One property, I allowed them to come in the kitchen to get water to mix the plaster, made the mistake of not standing over them. Result was plaster dust over the whole kitchen. Apparently, they didn't just come and fetch water, they also tipped the plaster out of the bags and mixed it in my kitchen......obviously totally oblivious to the dust.....or more likely could not care less. You have to ask yourself why? Why do they think it does not matter.

That's why I'm sooooo pleased that DH does all our plastering - not his trade at all (he was in interior design till recently) but was taught years ago by a former girlfriend's grandad - as he's very neat and careful. We've tackled several projects ourselves over twenty years and being able to do our own plastering has been a godsend.

Today he was plastering a(nother!) ceiling and only dropped one teensy speck of plaster on the floor....... He might be a bit slower than a professional, but he more than makes up for it in the tidiness stakes and must have saved us a fortune over the years

The trade we've had most issues with over the years is plumbing. Not only are most plumbers that we've encountered - with the exception of our current guy who is lovely, if a trifle OCD - a miserable, moaning bunch, but they invariably manage to cause damage as a result of *unexpected* water leakage :mad:

stebiz

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

This is where i was in disagreement with my wife.

Initially they wanted payment in full. I told her i wasn't happy with this & i wouldn't pay. She said she felt bad as she'd told them she'd "bring it round tomorrow".
In the end she reluctantly asked if she could pay £800 of a £980 bill.

We had the ceiling done & once finished i wasn't happy with some things. The door, the pile of rubbish that had been left & not discussed, just various things (namely the door). I told her i wouldn't pay.
We had a bit of a disagreement. She wasn't happy as she'd promised them she would "pay tomorrow" & would "feel bad ringing to say i've changed my mind".

There's been bits throughout where i've made decisions i normally wouldn't have, just for an easy life.
* We showed them the paperwork from the independent damp guy - mentioning anti sulphate washes, tanking solutions & whatever else that was in there & told them we wanted it done like that. They said they'd re-plaster the entire room & i'm still sure there was no anti sulphate washing going on. My wife was happy to go ahead but when i found they weren't doing it to the surveyors spec i personally would've pulled the plug i think.
* We got the keys in November, so it's been a while (admittedly we took a while to get going). I feel under pressure to get things done yesterday to move in. I would also like to move in, but it's making me rush decisions & make choices i wouldn't normally.
* I wouldn't have paid so readily.
* I wouldn't have been reluctant to chase them over matters. It was my wife who did all the contacting with them so rather than getting a barrage from both sides, we decided 1 would be in touch with them & the other (me) would be in touch with the driveway guy we had in. Every time i said this should be asked or that should be asked, she'd have a go at me & said she wasn't comfortable asking. So for an easy life i let it be.

I'm not trying to say this is all her fault, don't get me wrong. It takes two to tango :j Just that is what happened & this is what we have. Maybe i shouldn't go for the easy life so readily.


Aye, i was told by others that a plasterer is the messiest guy who'll be working in your house.

I asked him shortly before he died, whilst he was building our extension - how do you know so much?
He just laughed.
Go on then i said, how do you know so much?
About what he said. Everything. How do you know how to build, what to put where, what to cut where, what angle it needs to be at, how to wire that, run that from there to there with no problems, what level that needs to be at to make that work correctly etc etc.
You just pick it up he says.
Well i was almost 30 & hadn't picked anything up.
That's when he said - his work had sent him on plenty of courses where he'd learnt many things. He was a quick learner, very quick - only needed showing once.
Besides, he was a kid from the 40s when you didn't spend your days playing computer games as a kid - you went out doing. I suppose that's part of the problem these days. Kids don't "do" any more.

But that's too philosophical & negative


I contacted this chap directly. My wife said when she was booking in the work he was replying the same day, sometimes within the hour. I emailed him Thursday night. I emailed him so that i could show him the photos. No response so far.

My wife raised a fair point. She said - if you complain about someone who's done work, doesn't matter whether it's this chap or someone else ... would you have them back to correct it? Your trust will be gone in them & they'll be unhappy you've had a moan about their work, so would you have them back? Would you want them back to correct it? Could you trust them to?

The one builder I did not pay at all and would not allow to rectify the fault was somebody who did a job so fundamentally wrong that I couldn't allow him to work on the house again. The sum involved £750. My wife suggested I paid him something but sentiment doesn't come into it. If he chooses to take me to court then so be it.

lessonlearned

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

T

I asked him shortly before he died, whilst he was building our extension - how do you know so much?
He just laughed.
Go on then i said, how do you know so much?
About what he said. Everything. How do you know how to build, what to put where, what to cut where, what angle it needs to be at, how to wire that, run that from there to there with no problems, what level that needs to be at to make that work correctly etc etc.
You just pick it up he says.
Well i was almost 30 & hadn't picked anything up.
That's when he said - his work had sent him on plenty of courses where he'd learnt many things. He was a quick learner, very quick - only needed showing once.
Besides, he was a kid from the 40s when you didn't spend your days playing computer games as a kid - you went out doing. I suppose that's part of the problem these days. Kids don't "do" any more.

But that's too philosophical & negative

Philosophical yes, negative no. You have a point.

A lot of youngsters don't get the opportunity to do stuff to help them learn.

I allowed my boys to "help" with diy when they were around 6 or so. If they were strong enough to hold a paint roller I let them have a bash. I did of course have to redo their bit when they were in bed:rotfl: - after they had had a long soak in the bath - they got more paint on themselves than they did on the wall.

By the time they were 11 I allowed them to decorate their own bedrooms and chose their own colours. Er hem……It took 5 coats of paint to cover up the navy blue walls when it was time to redo the room.

Once they were old enough and strong enough to be useful - around the age of 13, each summer holiday, rather than let them laze around all day I gave them a project.

Over the years they become more proficient. They boarded the loft, put up coving in the bedrooms, laid laminate flooring, laid electricity cables. Outside they learned how to build a small retaining wall, a patio, and a water feature. They mowed lawns, pruned trees, cut hedges.

They loved it. And their mates were really envious because I allowed them to do "man stuff". Using a chain saw was their favourite "treat" and they still love using "man tools". :rotfl:.

Your wife does have a point about going back to the original company. They might correct the work with a good grace and make things right, then again they might not. You may never be happy with their work.

However, you havespent a lot of money with them so I think you should at least try and get the boss to inspect what his workman has done.

moneyistooshorttomention

lessonlearned wrote: »

Ah the one that got away;).

Yes, there's always at least one.

When I bought my first property in 1976 I paid the vast sum of £6100 for a 2 bed cottage. At the same time I viewed a 4 bed, three storey cottage for £4500.

The bigger cottage stank to high heaven, the owner had dogs, cats, rabbits, budgies, parrots you name it - Oh and 3 children….. You could see daylight through the roof. I ran away because I felt intimated by the amount of work needed - nowadays I wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Today the cottage I bought is now worth around £125K, the one I let slip through my fingers is around £350K.

I did the same thing with a church that had planning in place for conversion. 1983 £25K - now around the £lm mark. :rotfl::rotfl:

You live and learn…...

I'll remind myself of this and then keep fingers crossed and hope when I am getting driven nuts by the work on this house I think:rotfl:. The other house I could have bought was much more modern and I don't think I would even have had to decorate it, but I chose this dump. I did so on the grounds "It WILL be a nice house once it's done:cool:". Hopefully, I'll sit back and be pleasantly surprised at what it's worth in a few years time (though it's 2 bedroom and I know it would be perfectly big enough for a household with 1-3 people in, but that doesn't stop many smaller households wanting a place bigger than this). I can even see a vague possibility that, somewhere along the line, I might be able to turn it into a "right little gem", but that is very dependant on external circumstances, so might have to remain a "germ of an idea" in my head.

Time will tell.