Been sanctioned on JSA any options left

mgdavid

sniggings wrote: »

sorry but if it's a choice between eating and running around with no money to appeal a saction I choose the option of filling in the sick form if it means I have some food to eat...you just do not get it do you, some people have £0 left at the end of 2 weeks dole, then to find out the money they thought they were getting in 2 days is not going to be paid is imo worth lieing and saying they were sick.

No money for at least two weeks and they have you there saying "The OP needs to go back to the WP and ask thenm how and when they notified him of the appointment, he then needs to ask for a reconsideration." sorry but I really think you are either heartless or have closed your eyes to what you and this government are doing.

some massive assumptions in there, considering we still don't know why the appointment was missed. Can we stick to the known facts?

samsmoot

mgdavid wrote: »

some massive assumptions in there, considering we still don't know why the appointment was missed. Can we stick to the known facts?

Anything in this thread should probably be considered as general natter as the OP seems to have left us to it since posting.

busy_mom_2

sniggings wrote: »

sorry but if it's a choice between eating and running around with no money to appeal a saction I choose the option of filling in the sick form if it means I have some food to eat...you just do not get it do you, some people have £0 left at the end of 2 weeks dole, then to find out the money they thought they were getting in 2 days is not going to be paid is imo worth lieing and saying they were sick.

No money for at least two weeks and they have you there saying "The OP needs to go back to the WP and ask thenm how and when they notified him of the appointment, he then needs to ask for a reconsideration." sorry but I really think you are either heartless or have closed your eyes to what you and this government are doing.

I am not heartless at all, IF the person has used all his sickness he ends up in a bigger mess than he is in now, he will have to do a rapid reclaim and wait for this to be processed.
IF he fills in the JSA28 it will still have to go back to an LMDMA for a reconsideration so this will be no quicker and solve no immediate issues than my suggestion.

My eyes are wide open hence why I offer advice because IF the correct process hasn't been followed the decision will be overturned. I have said the sanctions can be harsh hence why I am trying to help.

missapril75

samsmoot wrote: »

Totally agree that lying about being sick would be the sensible thing to do if it would help. I'd have said it first if I'd have thought of it. It's the thing to do when you mess up and it's your fault (your moral stance permitting, of course!). Or when you need to avoid an appointment.

I'm sure most of us have been "economical with the truth" or allowed a comment to be misunderstood - or even told a downright lie - in order to achieve a desired result. Remembering, of course, that it's not just one's own moral compass that comes into play but how it impacts others.

But sometimes such a policy can come back to bite you on the bum and as Busy Mom has been suggesting, this is a prime candidate for one of those situations.

It's like going to your dad's funeral. It won't work again when it's genuine.

samsmoot

busy_mom wrote: »

I am not heartless at all, IF the person has used all his sickness he ends up in a bigger mess than he is in now, he will have to do a rapid reclaim and wait for this to be processed.
IF he fills in the JSA28 it will still have to go back to an LMDMA for a reconsideration so this will be no quicker and solve no immediate issues than my suggestion.

My eyes are wide open hence why I offer advice because IF the correct process hasn't been followed the decision will be overturned. I have said the sanctions can be harsh hence why I am trying to help.

I think you have offered good advice and certainly don't come across as heartless. It all depends on the OP's circumstances as to what can or can't be done so what advice is best can't be known right now. But nothing wrong with a few suggestions in the meantime.

Mr_F_Dorsetty

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

What a ridiculous suggestion!

In a way yes, but 'the bl**dy little poor people..." do not just disappear, you can't brush them under a rug and imagine they are not there.

I despair of the UK, William Booth has a lot to answer for imo.

Go to a N European country and the whole of society believes, and rightly so, that everyone in society is created by society. Therefore if someone is doing something wrong in the view of societies rules, it the fault of everyone in society.

Here in the UK people just 'Other' and point the finger.

What as others have asked is the OP to do about food? Yes he should have turned up and he didn't, but if we hung everyone for not acting as they should all the time then we'd soon have a population of 2 million, not 62 million.

Other people have given the OP advice, I do not know the system well enough to do so.

But I am sensible enough, not compassionate but sensible enough to know that these sort of actions not only diminish society they also create even more issues for the whole of society.

Do I countenance for instance stealing? No. Would I turn in a person who was shop lifting because they were starving? No, I'd buy them the sandwich.

We must ALL be responsible for the OP and people like him if we want the UK to be a decent place to live, which right now for so many it isn't by a very long shot.

Booth was entirely wrong, it is NOT the fault of the poor they are poor, it is the whole of society which allows and enables it.

sniggings

mgdavid wrote: »

some massive assumptions in there, considering we still don't know why the appointment was missed. Can we stick to the known facts?

what assumptions? I clearly say that if it's a choice between eating or waiting days or weeks for an appeal that might fail, I choose lieing...no assumption there.

sniggings

busy_mom wrote: »

I am not heartless at all, IF the person has used all his sickness he ends up in a bigger mess than he is in now, he will have to do a rapid reclaim and wait for this to be processed.
IF he fills in the JSA28 it will still have to go back to an LMDMA for a reconsideration so this will be no quicker and solve no immediate issues than my suggestion.

My eyes are wide open hence why I offer advice because IF the correct process hasn't been followed the decision will be overturned. I have said the sanctions can be harsh hence why I am trying to help.

the point you made and i replied to was that it would be unwise to use the sick days now in case they were needed later, my point is, if he needs to eat now, he has little choice, he'll have to worry about the lack of sick days later if he needs more.

Fact is some people when sanctioned are left with no money for weeks, the nearest food bank to me is over 7 miles away, yes I could walk there but walking back with a bag of food would take me hours as I have bad feet, I would also be left with no money to ring these places for help either, again it would mean walking miles, no money for meters if they are prepaid, bottom line is you need to do whatever you can to make the wait as short as possible for your money to start again, if that means lieing then so be it, telling someone to put in an appeal is all well and good but if there is a faster way then I for one would take it.

sensibleadvice

osdset wrote: »

I think the low 'take up' on appeals is probably because it's not seen as worth going through the process and waiting months for an outcome over a sanction lasting a few weeks, the claimant is going to have to find other means of support regardless of what may or may not happen in the distant future.

Another reason might be claimant ignorance, for some reason ESA claimants seem better informed about the appeal process, or at least more willing to use it.

Another reason might be the claimant thinks deep down the sanction is legitimate and appeal would find the same. Whether they like that fact is another matter.

osdset

sensibleadvice wrote: »

Another reason might be the claimant thinks deep down the sanction is legitimate and appeal would find the same. Whether they like that fact is another matter.

Quite a few sanctions don't make it to appeal stage because they get overturned, quite a lot more sanctions could be overturned if claimants took the trouble to contest them.
There is a fair bit of ignorance on the part of claimants with regard to what their options actually are.
I received an unlawful sanction over Christmas (I'm an ESA claimant), I got it overturned. However it took 22 days of letter writing and phone calls to achieve, I can fully appreciate just why some people don't contest sanctions because the process is akin to hitting your head against a brick wall.