Excel Parking - Ebbw Vale, The Walk - Surprise Surprise!

VorTechS

As an administrator of a Car Forum, I have been waiting a long time for something like this to happen - and finally it has happened!

Literally a few hours ago, I received a 'Parking Charge Notice' from Excel Parking having been caught by their ANPR system for being parked 'Without a valid ticket / permit'.

The circumstances surround the charge would in fact be true, in the sense at no point did the driver see any signs warning that the area was pay and display! More the point, this particular parking was for picking up a reserved item from an Argos store there that the driver had travelled a few hundred miles to collect, and the whole stay was in fact the grand duration of 18 minutes!

(It was literally the only store they could get the item at, at the bargain price they got it for!)

So, from what I can tell of everything I have read thus far on here, I can presume this notice is non-enforceable and I can either bin it, or if anyone has any suggested methods, take full advantage of this... ?

tykesi

So despite running a forum (and therefore we can assume you know how they work) and stating that "from what I can tell of everything I have read thus far on here, I can presume this notice is non-enforceable and I can either bin it" you have completely missed the frankly HUGE amount of information on this forum which tells you exactly how to deal with this?

So actually just another newbie wanting their hand held through the process?:T

VorTechS

I posted before I'd read more - and I arrived at my conclusions from Google searching linked directly to posts.

So yes, I'm seeing things have changed somewhat since matters have ever arisen on our forums and having been directed (through reading other more recent posts on Excel on here) to the relevant sticky.

Therefore, yes I hold my hands up, mea culpa!

VorTechS

A_Potential_PPC_Spy wrote:

Said parking spot was Pay and Display well before Excel ever took it over

An interesting point you make. However, I have never been to Ebbw Vale before this trip and so would hardly know that.

Also I did wonder about your statement, because there was no signage on the entrance that I recall, nor do I recall even seeing a P&D machine from the entrance I used, to the store.
Nor did I even notice ANY signage that I would have thought would be prominently displayed? In fact, as much as I could tell from the poorly lit car park it would have been very much like this image from 2009, which as you say, is well before Excel ever got there.....


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.776695,-3.20679,3a,75y,339.85h,69.47t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1saZBIju5gCWPXoCSfj_guAg!2e0!6m1!1e1

And, yes in retrospect I do see the one sign on the building (if it is indeed a P&D sign). But I did not see it at the time!

Coupon-mad

Please ignore the troll called Annie. A PPC spy we think, here to cause trouble.

Anyway these are the threads for you (the 2 stickies linked here):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64274803#Comment_64274803

We win at POPLA every time so this will be fun and you can then share your expertise on your own forum!

VorTechS

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Please ignore the troll called Annie. A PPC spy we think, here to cause trouble.

Thanks for the heads up! I guess I did get a little defensive, not like my normal catalysing self.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Anyway these are the threads for you (the 2 stickies linked here):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64274803#Comment_64274803

We win at POPLA every time so this will be fun and you can then share your expertise on your own forum!

Thanks for the link that I subsequently came across in further reading through the day. I'm glad to say I have already read and digested a lot of information, and also taken a looking at the BPA guidelines from June last year (although I appreciate since last night there have been revisions as recent as this year).

I also found a similar post in the forums based on the same/company location albeit based on an 'overstay' rather than 'failure to display' which is just a few months old.

Excel Parking Charge at The Walk in Ebbw Vale, Wales

But like many facing this for the first time, I do so with a little apprehension.

Although the 'debate' goes on in our own forums, with 90% of people participating suggesting the notice be 'ignored'! (The numbers involved are small though!)

I have drafted the appeal letter and am now just waiting on one of the forum members who happens to live in Ebbw Vale, who has kindly offered to take pictures of the site just so that I can tailor it according to my re-collections of my 20 minutes experience of the town!

Here is the draft thus far:

Dear Central Payments Office,

As the registered keeper of the vehicle registration -My reg- I am in receipt of your Parking Charge Notice -XL PCN ref- dated 18th February 2014 and I wish to invoke your appeals process as all liability to your company is denied on the following grounds:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner

2) Your signage at the location does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice

3) You do not have authority or a contract to issue these invoices.

These points and others will be raised with POPLA should you not accept this appeal, and you will be expected to provide a full breakdown of your alleged loss, and your full unredacted contract with the landowner.

If you do reject the challenge and insist on taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses,legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

Please issue your cancellation within 35 days of this letter, or forward a POPLA verification code.

Any communication that does not either confirm cancellation or include a POPLA verification code shall be reported to the BPA as a breach of their Code of Practice - the BPA recently issued guidance to all members to remind them of this fact.

Such communication may also be deemed harassment and pursued accordingly.

Regards,

I have to say though, I am particularly looking forward to invoicing them at the end of the process!

I have also kept the retail receipt, and stuck it in the same envelope as the PCN so that I don't lose it should it be needed!

Coupon-mad

the 'debate' goes on in our own forums, with 90% of people participating suggesting the notice be 'ignored'!

The point is your debaters are OUT OF DATE. For example, were they unaware that ParkingEye has issued over 8000 small claims to ignorers last year, out of the blue? And they are pursuing court cases, sending Solicitors to courts every single day? Now I know your company is Excel but guess what Excel were quoted as saying somewhere? Yep, that they were watching PE's court claims with interest and intended to follow (they do already sue people you know, just not on the PE scale - yet!). And if your forum members think people always win in court - tell that to the 8000 who got court papers last year, most of whom seem to have panicked and paid. Others have lost, some have got theirs cancelled by the retailers and SOME court cases have been won, but a minority.

That appeal draft above is fine. I hope they don't cancel and that you get to try POPLA (and you will win at that stage) as you will then be able to show your other forum posters the way ahead from 2013 onwards which they have missed. POPLA is the way forward in England/Wales, where a PPC is a BPA Member (some are IPC members, a new thing and less tested do far). Appeal arguments would be similar though.

Also POPLA costs a PPC £27 plus VAT every time - regardless of result - and we win EVERY time! It's such a simple formula in most cases too. 'No GPEOL' will win at POPLA where a charge is alleged (on the signage) as being for 'failure to comply' or 'contravention' or 'breach of terms'. Most signs are indeed written that way! So the PPC has to show the charge is a GPEOL - and they cannot crack this because it isn't! Failing that, we beat them on 'no landowner contract' as they don't like to show it.

As a health warning before the posters on 'your forum' get too excited - the only harder ones to warn your forum members about would be here a sign says a car park might be 'reserved as a free car park for permit holders' but other people 'can park without a permit but agree to pay a contractual fee of - say - £100 to do so'. That's not worded as a breach and so a PPC does not have to show GPEOL. Accounts for a tiny handful of PPCs such as Combined Parking Solutions and District Enforcement, both of whom are litigious and pretty nasty TBH. Oh, and 'UKCPS' try hard to emulate that model as well but fail in their NTK to see it through, the NTK says 'breach' and so do their contracts with landholders, which gives the real basis of charge away.

Guys_Dad

I am sure that there would be no objections to you copying the NEWBIES thread to enlighten your own forum and, of course, keep them up to date with your own case.

At the very least, please, please tell them that "ignore" is so out of date and they need to use POPLA.

Point them in the direction of this forum for help, but tell them to read the NEWBIES sticky first.

VorTechS

Appeal letter was send by the 'Signed for' method yesterday!
Let battle commence!

I will review the entire process with the forum when a conclusion, hopefully successful, is reached!

Stroma

You should have sent with proof of postage only, there is a chance that excel will not sign for this, and if it's a po box then nobody from them will be the ones signing. We don't normally advise sending it recorded. Can you send it online ?

VorTechS

Regardless of the method of sending, there is a receipt containing the name and destination postcode.

I presume that should be enough for proof of postage anyway... ?

There was an e-mail address, but the way the notice was worded suggested that they wouldn't accept appeals via e-mail. I may have read that wrong though, and will double check-it now.