Effect of Scottish Independence Vote

TCA

Archi_Bald wrote: »

I know you have asked planteria to post a relevant link, but here is one, anyway: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/27/scottish-independence-spain-alex-salmond-eu

All that does is give an opinion as to how Scotland would apply for membership. Nowhere in there does it say Spain would veto any application. Try this:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/17/barroso-scotland-ludicrous-remarks

"In seeking to frighten Scottish voters with dire predictions that the Spanish government might veto any Scottish EU membership application, he (Barroso) was, of course, merely mimicking identical declarations by David Cameron and the main Scottish unionist leaders. They have all stressed that Madrid would probably block Scotland for fear that otherwise the growing movement for Catalan independence would become irresistible.

But the language being used by the Spanish government does not support these dire predictions. In a recent interview the Spanish foreign minister, Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo, stated that a Scottish EU application should be considered in the event of a Yes victory in the referendum. He went on to insist: "If Britain's constitutional order allows – and it seems that it does – Scotland to choose independence, we have nothing to say about this."

More strikingly he went out of his way to distance himself from suggestions that the Scottish and Catalan cases were inseparable for Madrid. "The two issues are 'fundamentally different'," he declared.

TCA

Archi_Bald wrote: »

I have asked that before but didn't get an answer: When were the UK government asked to ask the question?

From a very quick Google:

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/lords-criticise-weak-scottish-secretary-1.61836

"Scottish Secretary Michael Moore admitted the UK Government was making no contingency plans for independence. Mr Moore’s position was branded “totally unsustainable” and “letting down Scotland” during a House of Lords economic affairs committee after he also conceded Westminster would not approach the European Commission for a formal view on what would happen in the event of a Yes vote."

black_taxi_2

Andrew Neil Twitter

@Masked_Scot @traquir @farrochie Who are all these horrible little cybernats? So brave - as they behind their anonymity. Scum of Scotland.


I thought bbc was neutral

grey_gym_sock

planteria wrote: »

from what i have read, it Is a fact. a country cannot leave an EU member state and become a member state itself without applying in it's own right.

that's not the claim i was disputing, which was:

planteria wrote: »

like it or not, Scotland will leave the EU if it leaves the UK.

you've repeated claimed that scotland would be out of the EU. you have no evidence for this.

there is an argument about what procedures they'd have to use if in order to maintain membership of the EU without interruption. but the political reality is that, if the other 27 members want them to stay in, it can happen. and while nobody can predict the actions of 27 governments with certainty, there no obvious reason why any of them would say no.

grey_gym_sock

there are genuine uncertainties about independence. it would be easier for voters in scotland to make a decision if a lot of them could be cleared up. and most of them won't be cleared up, AFAICS.

this is partly because the UK government doesn't want to help clear too many points up, because they want to make independence look scary. but only partly. there are plenty of unavoidable unknowns, too. this kind of decision is always a bit of a leap in the dark.

you can argue about the economic advantages and disadvantages. but in the end, it's a political decision.

Archi_Bald

TCA wrote: »

All that does is give an opinion as to how Scotland would apply for membership.

What?

It tells me what the spanish prime minister said.

planteria

TCA wrote: »

Seeing as you still don't get it....

i do get it. i am giving the people of Scotland credit that they get it too. it seems you are not;)

and there won't be anyone voting in advance of a vote that hasn't been planned yet, so there won't be any links to prove the outcome. but you can be sure that, as things stand, Scotland will not be approved for entry into the EU by all member states. and, as i have said, i believe that would be good news for Scotland.

Archi_Bald

TCA wrote: »

he also conceded Westminster would not approach the European Commission for a formal view on what would happen in the event of a Yes vote

Ok, and why does Alex Salmond not complain about it? It can't be of importance to him, else we would by now have heard him crying blue murder.

planteria

grey_gym_sock wrote: »

you've repeated claimed that scotland would be out of the EU. you have no evidence for this.

there is an argument about what procedures they'd have to use if in order to maintain membership of the EU without interruption. but the political reality is that, if the other 27 members want them to stay in, it can happen. and while nobody can predict the actions of 27 governments with certainty, there no obvious reason why any of them would say no.

it is clear that any country leaving a member state would have to apply for membership of the EU in their own right. there is at least 1 country in the EU that will a. not agree to change that procedure and b. not approve any new member who applies for EU membership. i guess, bottom line, you can believe differently if you choose to, believe Alex Salmond will get Scotland into a currency union with the UK too if you like, and Vote Yes. please.;)

TCA

Archi_Bald wrote: »

What?

It tells me what the spanish prime minister said.

Yes, and he said he thought Scotland would have to apply from outside the EU. He didn't then say "and when they do apply we'll vote against them". I asked for proof of a country who would veto Scotland's application. That's not it. The link I replied with clearly states Spain's position and that is that any Scottish application should be considered. Crystal clear. So let's not hear any more scaremongering unless you can offer any factual evidence of a veto from any EU member.