Effect of Scottish Independence Vote

TCA

lejog2003 wrote: »

Another failure to accept a real problem. Just deny the problem exists.

Yes Scotland believes that UK immigration policy is not appropriate for Scotland.

There are no circumstances in which the Scottish Government would countenance any measure being taken that jeopardized the ability of citizens across the rUK and Ireland to move freely across the borders as they are presently able to do

A real problem exists? Are you serious? You're another trying to create problems. Yes Scotland is a campaign group and will not form the next Scottish Government. But to quote from their website anyway:

"At the outset, the immigration system would be similar to what exists now, and it would then of course depend on who was elected as the Scottish Government as to what changes would be introduced."

And that needn't be the SNP either, as I'm tired of saying.

black_taxi_2

No Way Jose. Scotland is not Kosovo.
POSTED BY IAIN2MACWHIRTER ⋅ FEBRUARY 17, 2014

Rarely have I found myself left speechless by the comment of a politician, but the Jose Manuel Barroso’s attempt to compare Scotland with Kosovo left me in a state of spluttering incoherence. I have nothing against the people of Kosovo – indeed, I supported military intervention to stop genocide there in 1999.

But Kosovo is not in the European Union and has not even applied to join. It is a small, poor country with profound ethnic divisions and serious security issues. Scotland is one of the richest and most stable democracies in the European Union, has its own parliament, five world class universities, abundant natural resources and fishing grounds that the Spanish fleets have been trawling to extinction for decades.

Scotland fulfils all the Copenhagen criteria for membership of the EU – by definition because Scotland already is in the EU. Scotland has been part of the European Union since its creation in 1993 and has been subject to European law for over forty years. There is no precedent for a country being expelled from the EU, and the mere suggestion is contrary to the founding principle on which Europe is based: the right of all nations to self-determination.

Or will Mr Barroso be assuring the Russian President Vladimir Putin that it is “impossible” for Ukraine to join the European Union? Former communist countries like Bulgaria have recently been welcomed into the EU fold despite having serious economic problems and profound human rights issues, including recognised breaches of the European Convention. But not Scotland whose parliament incorporated the ECHR into its very constitution. It took a nanosecond for the EU to recognise the existence of countries like Latvia when they broke from Russian domination. Yet we are to believe that one of the oldest countries in Europe is to be blackballed.

Mr Barroso may think he is doing the UK a good turn here, but he will get precious little reward. It will make no difference to David Cameron’s determination to hold a referendum on withdrawal from the EU. But it will make the one country in the UK that supports the EU think seriously about the whole project. Even as the UK is threatening to leave, here is the president trying to prevent Scotland from staying in.

The president of the EU is going beyond his remit with this attempt to interfere with the democratic processes in a member nation – and remember Scotland remained a nation despite the union with England in 1707. It is the voice of a bureaucrat who clearly has no understanding of British and Scottish history. There can be only one possible response: no way Jose.

CLAPTON

black_taxi wrote: »

No Way Jose. Scotland is not Kosovo.
POSTED BY IAIN2MACWHIRTER ⋅ FEBRUARY 17, 2014

Rarely have I found myself left speechless by the comment of a politician, but the Jose Manuel Barroso’s attempt to compare Scotland with Kosovo left me in a state of spluttering incoherence. I have nothing against the people of Kosovo – indeed, I supported military intervention to stop genocide there in 1999.

But Kosovo is not in the European Union and has not even applied to join. It is a small, poor country with profound ethnic divisions and serious security issues. Scotland is one of the richest and most stable democracies in the European Union, has its own parliament, five world class universities, abundant natural resources and fishing grounds that the Spanish fleets have been trawling to extinction for decades.

Scotland fulfils all the Copenhagen criteria for membership of the EU – by definition because Scotland already is in the EU. Scotland has been part of the European Union since its creation in 1993 and has been subject to European law for over forty years. There is no precedent for a country being expelled from the EU, and the mere suggestion is contrary to the founding principle on which Europe is based: the right of all nations to self-determination.

Or will Mr Barroso be assuring the Russian President Vladimir Putin that it is “impossible” for Ukraine to join the European Union? Former communist countries like Bulgaria have recently been welcomed into the EU fold despite having serious economic problems and profound human rights issues, including recognised breaches of the European Convention. But not Scotland whose parliament incorporated the ECHR into its very constitution. It took a nanosecond for the EU to recognise the existence of countries like Latvia when they broke from Russian domination. Yet we are to believe that one of the oldest countries in Europe is to be blackballed.

Mr Barroso may think he is doing the UK a good turn here, but he will get precious little reward. It will make no difference to David Cameron’s determination to hold a referendum on withdrawal from the EU. But it will make the one country in the UK that supports the EU think seriously about the whole project. Even as the UK is threatening to leave, here is the president trying to prevent Scotland from staying in.

The president of the EU is going beyond his remit with this attempt to interfere with the democratic processes in a member nation – and remember Scotland remained a nation despite the union with England in 1707. It is the voice of a bureaucrat who clearly has no understanding of British and Scottish history. There can be only one possible response: no way Jose.

and the conclusion is .......... that scotland will, if it votes yes, have to apply to join the EU like any other nation

so what's the problem?

atush

grey_gym_sock wrote: »

actually, i don't think a charm offensive would make sense at this stage. because other EU governments wouldn't like to upset the UK government by appearing to support scottish independence before the referendum takes place. if the SNP win the vote, it would be the time for "charm".

The problem is, If I were Scottish, and entitled to vote (the fact that those Scots who live in the UK outside of scotland are not is a travesty BTW) I would want the answers of the EU in/out and what currency etc answering BEFORE i voted. Period. Whatever my views were onteh above, it would affect my vote.


To have it be after any vote is pointless IMHO.

veryintrigued

Apologies if already asked. I think I probably know the later - but anyone got any stats for the former?

WatsonNimrod

atush wrote: »

The problem is, If I were Scottish, and entitled to vote (the fact that those Scots who live in the UK outside of scotland are not is a travesty BTW) I would want the answers of the EU in/out and what currency etc answering BEFORE i voted. Period. Whatever my views were onteh above, it would affect my vote.

I'm of the exact same mind.

I for one would be much more likely to vote yes if the yes campaign actually came out with the following..

Tell George Osborne, right fair enough we will go it alone with our own currency much better in the long run for all concerned. If it's the Euro then fine (see the next point)

Then tell the EU, hey it would be great if we could join ASAP but understand there is a process and we will follow the rules go through the process just like everyone else did.

It seems to me it's all about convenience until Scotland are in the EU, it suits the SNP not to have to have a separate currency then as if the groundswell of opinion was that it would be better being in the Euro, that would mean 3 currencies in a short space of time which even a basic level economist would tell you is a disaster for everyone.

It's time for more clarity from the yes campaign.

Not everyone else but them are liars surely? They are loosing credibility fast with that attitude.

Marazan

Archi_Bald wrote: »

Ages. It won't be a a matter of a simple vote. Accession does take ages. Also, Scotland have to be a country first before they can apply.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_the_European_Union

So your answer is you don't know.

Could Scotland start negotiation on the 19th of September? No-one knows. Does it literally have to wait until formal independence from the rest of the UK before it can even begin negotiations with the EU. No one knows.

There is no precedent for what would happen if Scotland votes Yes to independence. The EC is happy to investigate and give an answer, if only it was asked by the UK government.

planteria

Archi_Bald wrote: »

Gosh, are you serious? How can you endorse personal attacks?

I am no fan of GB either but that doesn't mean he should be subjected to direct personal attacks.

i was joking..sorry if that not clear.

planteria

grey_gym_sock wrote: »

you state this as is it's a fact, but it isn't. the negotiation about this would be "interesting", but i'd fully expect scotland to stay in the EU.

from what i have read, it Is a fact. a country cannot leave an EU member state and become a member state itself without applying in it's own right. we might be able to have a little wager ggs;)

planteria

CLAPTON wrote: »

the membership criteria are well established: many countries have joined over the last few years: there are no secrets here

as joining requires the agreement of the current members there can be no certainty

agreed. but Every Single member state would have to agree. and it is, apparently, certain that at least 1 will not.