Appeal to ANPR Ltd from an overstay in Swansea Parc Tawe

swinster

Hi all,

As the registered owner of this vehicle I received a fake "PCN" for an overstay in Parc Tawe North retail park in Swansea. I have not received such a "PCN" for many years and my inclination was to simply ignore this. However, thank goodness I returned to this forum for guidance and I now see that this advice has changed.

I have one day left to appeal the decision to the PPC and so I am going to email ANPR with a standard template letter as listed on the Newbies thread. however, I noted that the dates this fake PCN was issued (17/01/2014) was beyond 14 days of the date of the alleged infringement (21/12/2013). No on screen ticket was issued and the the initial letter shows the vehicle entering at 14:30 and leaving at 18:10 - a total of 3hrs 40mins. The "FREE" parking time is supposedly limited to 3 hours.

Am I right in thinking (after reading some of the posts linked from the Newbies thread that the lateness notification breaches some kind of rules?

After a bit of research, I found that Parc Tawe is spit into two separate retail parks - Parc Tawe and Parc Tawe North (ridiculous they are named all but the same thing which makes it seem that they are linked). They are owned by two separate property management groups, and Parc Tawe North is owned by Picton Capital.

I take it that at this stage a soft appeal to the PPC asking for POPLA case number would be OK, but I think I should highlight the dependency in dates?

Advice welcome, and many thanks for keeping this forum going.

Chris

swinster

For reference, here is the initial PCN letter.


PCN 10001-1 by swinster, on Flickr


PCN 10002 by swinster, on Flickr

4consumerrights

Sadly it would be out of time if the PPC actually invoked keeper liability under POFA -and met the criteria stipulated which that NtK does not.

[STRIKE][STRIKE]Trev Whitehouse [/STRIKE]is quite a comedian when it comes to his letters and he is actually trying a reversal of POFA wording above.[/STRIKE] As pointed out below different company!

"If you were not the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged contravention then you should invite the Keeper to pay the charge etc"


What you should do is write this letter:

Dear ANPR

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle registration number xxxxx and confirm receipt of your parking charge notice xxxxxxx dated xxxxxx and deny any liability to pay this parking charge.

As you appear to be circumventing the requirements of POFA 2012, the registered keeper is not responsible for this charge, but the driver! I therefore suggest you take this matter up with that person. Please note I have no legal obligation to name the driver.

The amount claimed constitutes an unlawful penalty,as it is not a genuine pre-estimate of any loss you pretend you have and I further contend that you have no legal authority to pursue any charge through the courts as you are acting as an agent for the landowner and do not have any properity interest at this location.

Now as you are pursuing the wrong person, you are being put on notice that complaints are being prepared to submit to the BPA and DVLA and I suggest that you cancel this parking charge immediately to save further embarassment.

However should you wish to pursue this matter further, then you are more than welcome to supply a POPLA code which will result in further appeal points raised.

You should be aware that if you either continue to pursue myself as keeper (with or without supplying a POPLA code), then I reserve the right to raise a claim for my costs and time against you at a court rate of £18 per hour. My costs are not exhaustive and will include stationery, stamps, travel expenses and any legal costs etc, and by and by continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these should I prevail.

In view of the above, I look forward to receiving your written confirmation by return that this parking charge has been cancelled.

bazster

It's not ANPR Ltd, it's ANPR PC Ltd, different company.

Although the notice contains some fairly incomprehensible blather about keeper and driver it doesn't seem to attempt to invoke keeper liability. It's waaaay out of time for that anyway.

4consumerrights

Thanx Baz - my mistake - will edit post above!

To the OP the above letter is still good to go as keeper liability is not invoked under POFA by that NtK received.

It would appear that ANPR PC are another comedy act by the "blather to coin Bazster's expression" and that it is BRETT STARK who is company director and in fact the registered offices in London are very familiar - mail drop service with many other PPCs

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/07279811/ANPR-PC-LIMITED/directors-shareholders#people-summary

swinster

Now I glad I posted!!!

Just to confirm, when you say:

4consumerrights wrote: »

Sadly it would be out of time if the PPC actually invoked keeper liability under POFA -and met the criteria stipulated which that NtK does not.

and

bazster wrote: »

Although the notice contains some fairly incomprehensible blather about keeper and driver it doesn't seem to attempt to invoke keeper liability. It's waaaay out of time for that anyway.

are you saying that this is NOT a "Notification the Keeper" but rather a "Notification to Driver", and does this come with the same time line deadlines? Do PPCs have to abide by the "SCHEDULE 4 OF THE PROTECTION OF FREEDOMS ACT 2012 RECOVERY OF UNPAID PARKING CHARGES" or is this something that is arbitrary? If so, does it mean that because it's beyond this "14 day limit", it doesn't mater??

Should anything else not arise, I will forward the template you suggest tomorrow via email (last day of the 28 days as given for me to respond).

Cheers.

4consumerrights

The notice confirms that keeper details were accessed from the DVLA - but parking companies are allowed to do this under a dual system:

1) By invoking keeper liability under the provisions laid down under POFA - whereby notices and timings must follow a strict schedule and compliance.

and

2) Keeper details are obtained - where there was not really a time limit (though the new code of practice has from the new date given more strict time lines). These notices try and entice the recipient to name the driver as only the driver can be pursued if known.

The parking charge you received is in the latter category.

swinster

Many thanks for this. I shall proceed as indicated although I assume the appeal will be denied and we will end up going to a POPLA appeal.

Redx

swinster wrote: »

Many thanks for this. I shall proceed as indicated although I assume the appeal will be denied and we will end up going to a POPLA appeal.

more than likely , yes

read this too https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

Coupon-mad

swinster wrote: »

Many thanks for this. I shall proceed as indicated although I assume the appeal will be denied and we will end up going to a POPLA appeal.

Yep - where as keeper you will win if worded as per the 'How to win at POPLA' examples in the linked thread. Also have a paragrpah called 'No keoper liability' at POPLA stage .

swinster

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Yep - where as keeper you will win if worded as per the 'How to win at POPLA' examples in the linked thread. Also have a paragrpah called 'No keoper liability' at POPLA stage .

Well, almost immediately after forwarding the template letter as outlined by 4consumerrights above (and after thier automated response saying that the result of the appeals procedure would result in either an acception or rejection notice being raised), I recieved this reply. No mention of a POPLA code

We recommend that you supply the drives details or we may continue to peruse you as it states in the new code of practise 2013

Many Thanks

ANPR Parking Control / P.A.C.E.
“The Most Advanced Number Plate Recognition In The World”
In association with www.StarkTechnologies.co.uk

www.anprparkingcontrol.co.uk

[EMAIL="info@anprparkingcontrol.co.uk"]info@anprparkingcontrol.co.uk[/EMAIL]

ANPR PC Ltd
Registered Office address:
145 - 157 St John St
EC1V 4PY, London, UK
Company Number: 7279811

ANPR PC LTD is registered with the Information Commissioner in compliance with Data Protection Act 1998. Data Protection Registration Number Z2407217.
*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
DISCLAIMER: This message is sent in confidence for the addressee only. It may contain confidential or sensitive information. The contents are not to be disclosed to anyone other than the addressee. Unauthorised recipients are requested to preserve this confidentiality and to advise us of any errors in transmission. If you have received this mail in error or have any concerns about the content, please inform our team immediately at [EMAIL="info@anprparkingcontrol.co.uk"]info@anprparkingcontrol.co.uk[/EMAIL] Thank You

Any suggestions? I assume I would either respond by re-outlining the paragraph that states that they should issue a POPLA code and that any other communication would constitute harassment, or should I just leave this 'as is' and wait?

Cheers,