identity fraud - Natwest acc in my name - NW does not want to know!

System

usignuolo wrote: »

So both P4u were happy to sell phone and Orange to set up an unlimited plan with no information about me at all beyond something you could lift off the ER and a fake bank account which would not pass the simplest scrutiny...

Like you, I have since found many accounts of this scam on the web, and your analysis looks 100% correct. If so, I don't think there is any fake NatWest account in your name, just a bogus account number and a NatWest sort code against which Orange would have failed to set up a direct debit.
If Phones4U mistakenly did credit checks on you, you might like to insist that they remove them from your credit records.
When you contacted Phones4U, it is lamentable that Phones4U did not contact the Met, insist that the Met must investigate, and ask you to co-operate in getting the fake courrier arrested.

nwc389

Is it not that P4U would not need to do a credit check as the contract was for orange where you already have an account.
When you were called by the scammers was it on your mobile ?
My guess is that they had your name , address and DOB and mobile number , now I'm not sure about this but I do think that each company can be recognised by the first few digits of the mobile number so they would be fairly sure that the company they asked for the contract with would have your details and you may well be pre-approved for more than one contract.
Scary !!

SnooksNJ

I don't understand how this could work because no one is going to give a phone addressed to them to some random person. Best case scenario for the scammer is what happened here, the OP said the phone was returned. Worst case the scam person does it to someone neurotic like me who would be at the police station.

usignuolo

nwc I think you have slightly the wrong end of the stick. The initial purchase of the phone was done on line with p4u by a scammer using a bogus bank account - only possible becasue of totally inadequate checking of account details by p4u. (I have never bought a phone from p4u). Along with the initial phone purchase the purchaser bought an Orange plan. This was set up as a DD with p4u using the fake bank account details. p4u then passed my fake details along to Orange as their subcontractor, to set up the plan. (p4u told me all this.)

The scammers phoned me on my landline which is readily available as I work from home. My mobile number is a closely guarded secret and they did not use it. As it happens I do have an Orange account so phoned Orange up to see if a second account had been set up. The person there checked and at first could not see a second account but then confirmed that a request from p4u had been received on line earlier in the day to set up a second plan for me (using the DD on the fake bank account) and this had been put in place. I don't think this was actually a separate contract with Orange but a subcontract from p4u but I might be wrong. In any case this new phone was treated as quite separate from my existing plan and not registered against my valid account but against the fake one.

I don't know, as we never got that far, whether this would have rung any alarm bells in the Orange systems when the DD failed, as it inevitably would. I explained it was a fake account and Orange cancelled it, or they told me they did. .

usignuolo

Snooks the way it works is the phone is delivered by a courier and you sign for it as the parcel is addressed to you. Obviously you open it and realise it is not yours and assume there has been a mistake.

A few minutes later you get a call from a guy claiming to be from a courier company who confirms there has indeed been a mistake and says he has been asked to pick it up and will be round shortly to collect it and sorry for your inconvenience. I assume he arrives dressed in some courier type outfit.

Most people fall for it and it seems to be an extremely lucrative racket. Indeed at one point they were buying and then collecting 3 phones from one address at a time this way. I only got one, maybe the phone companies have got a bit suspicious about multiple purchases although I assume these are all online purchases.

They did pick up one guy in the NW last year, he had two phones already collected, the two phones he was collecting when he got pinched and an address to go and collect two more after that. So you can see if they are all high end phones, how lucrative it is. The police are as a rule not interested as it is classified as a civil crime and if you return the phones you have not lost anything.

It only succeeds because of the inadequate checking of fake accounts by p4u and presumably other phone companies and the cavalier attitude of banks towards DDs. Anyone can set up a DD on anyones account if they can get convincing enough bank details. The account details and the name and address of the person concerned do not have to match and as far as I can tell, the bank makes no attempt to match them.

grumbler

usignuolo wrote: »

...a civil crime....

A wrong term I think.

A case/law can be civil or criminal. Crime is always criminal.

usignuolo

You and I know that but you would be surprised how many crimes certainly round my way, the police choose to define as civil and therefore outside their remit.

In this case the policewoman said unless I had lost money there was no crime committed. It seems identity theft of itself is not a crime unless you lose some thing tangible by it. Passing yourself off as someone else may be a crime when other parties lose money but unless the person impersonated actually loses money then as far as the police are concerned they have suffered no crime. Go Figure.....

I suppose obtaining goods by false pretences is a crime if the person is caught in the act but the chances of anyone in our local police even bothering to leave the police station to apprehend a fake courier are faint to non existent. I am sure they would say this is something for the banks and phone companies to sort out with better procedures and they would probably be right.

I am thinking of writing to the CEO of p4u explaining how the scam works and suggesting it is in his own interest he gets his house in order.

SnooksNJ

usignuolo wrote: »

Snooks the way it works is the phone is delivered by a courier and you sign for it as the parcel is addressed to you. Obviously you open it and realise it is not yours and assume there has been a mistake.

A few minutes later you get a call from a guy claiming to be from a courier company who confirms there has indeed been a mistake and says he has been asked to pick it up and will be round shortly to collect it and sorry for your inconvenience. I assume he arrives dressed in some courier type outfit.

Most people fall for it and it seems to be an extremely lucrative racket. Indeed at one point they were buying and then collecting 3 phones from one address at a time this way. I only got one, maybe the phone companies have got a bit suspicious about multiple purchases although I assume these are all online purchases.

They did pick up one guy in the NW last year, he had two phones already collected, the two phones he was collecting when he got pinched and an address to go and collect two more after that. So you can see if they are all high end phones, how lucrative it is. The police are as a rule not interested as it is classified as a civil crime and if you return the phones you have not lost anything.

It only succeeds because of the inadequate checking of fake accounts by p4u and presumably other phone companies and the cavalier attitude of banks towards DDs. Anyone can set up a DD on anyones account if they can get convincing enough bank details. The account details and the name and address of the person concerned do not have to match and as far as I can tell, the bank makes no attempt to match them.

I can't believe ID theft and attempting to acquire goods fraudulently is not considered criminal.
As soon as you get that package and see an account is set up in your name the first thing is to call the cell phone company.

innovate

SnooksNJ wrote: »

As soon as you get that package and see an account is set up in your name the first thing is to call the cell phone company.

She did call the shop, P4U and the mobile service provider, Orange.

maninthestreet

SnooksNJ wrote: »

I can't believe ID theft and attempting to acquire goods fraudulently is not considered criminal.
As soon as you get that package and see an account is set up in your name the first thing is to call the cell phone company.

It IS a criminal offence - the offence of fraud by false representation, as defined in the The Fraud Act 2006.