identity fraud - Natwest acc in my name - NW does not want to know!

usignuolo

I am beginning to wonder if the whole thing is an even more elaborate online scam than I first thought.

To get a phone delivered, the scammers need a bonafide address with a clean credit record. Someone who passes credit checks and is likely to be home when the courier delivers eg an honest older person, likely to believe their "misdelivered" parcel line. They choose their "marks" from a list of potential "candidates" in this category for whom they have basic info: name address dob.

The scam also needs a valid bank account associated with that address so they set one up for the mark, using one of a number of fake but apparently valid combinations of branch and account code. (This account gets past the usual checks -maybe they have found a loophole.)

Then masquerading as an apparently valid customer, they go online and order a phone and plan for the fake account. (It may even be automated up to this point.) In my case they ordered an HTC and earphones (often it is two phones) from Phones4U with an Orange plan. (P4u told me unprompted it was being paid for with a NatWest account which had probably been set up for that purpose.)

The order process swings into action with the scammers monitoring the fake order for delivery. Once this is underway they get their scammer positioned nearby in his fake uniform ready to phone the mark and arrange to collect the misdelivered parcel. They phoned me within 5 minutes of the parcel being delivered - I don't know if they were watching the house or if the P4u courier uses a tracking system. In fact by then I was on the phone myself to P4U. By the time they rang back 5 minutes later my husband had just gone out and I told them he had taken it back to the post office to send back.

The only thing I do not really understand is how they would expect the sim card to work but maybe they really want the phone and only use the sim card for a month or however long it takes for Orange to realise they have been scammed. Or maybe it is even more elaborate and they sell on the phone with an apparently working sim and unlimited plan and the buyer then founds out they too have been scammed.

Sound plausible? The only thing I don't really get is how they get the bank account past the usual checks. I looked up the scam and at the end of last year they were running it a lot in the north west using two phones from O2. Maybe O2 has blocked their particular loophole and they have turned to P4u.

System

usignuolo wrote: »

Sound plausible? The only thing I don't really get is how they get the bank account past the usual checks.

Yes (and thanks for updating us on your dogged investigations!). Out of curiosity, I did a quick dummy run on the Phones4U website. I put in my genuine bank account number, and what I know to be a valid sort code, at a bank I have nothing to do with. The Phones4U website ticked them both. So it looks as though they just check that the account number passes the modulus test, and that the sort code exists. Only later would they find that they can't set up a direct debit. If so, it seems extraordinarily lax.

usignuolo

Thanks Nick. When I took out my last Orange contract, they debited me a notional penny first to check the account existed. Clearly Phone4U do not do that. And if you do the whole thing on line it is even easier and even Orange seems to let it through. Amazing...

I found that the security seems pretty lax in most phone shops and it is perfectly possible to run this sort of fraud using just a name address and DOB from the electoral roll. Take a look at this horror story

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/aug/03/mobile-phone-fraudsters-multiple-contracts

The banks also lose out some of the time - eg where someone like me returns the phone and cancels the contract at once. Then they pick up the bill. So it is curious that NatWest has so little interest in the problem as my investigations indicate this phone thing is now happening on a huge scale. You would think they would want to stop the losses on the NatWest accounts being used....I have heard nothing back from them since I reported the misuse of NatWest branch and account codes yesterday.

grumbler

I think it's a debit/credit card that is normally used for debiting 1p. Doing this instantly for checking a bank account details is impossible.

And in fact it's the entire DD setup system that is an "extraordinarily lax", as it allows any stranger to set a DD for any valid combination of a sort code and account number without even having the name of the account holder checked.

usignuolo

In fairness to P4u and Orange they were both helpful and quick to act. Meanwhile I have spoken to my own bank, also very helpful (where I already use their enhanced security procedure for on line purchases) and we have put a temporary block on all new DDs and SOs for the time being, and I have registered with Cifas.

It's only NatWest that has proved awkward to deal with and slow and reluctant to act over the use of their bank details to create fake accounts.

innovate

usignuolo wrote: »

So it is curious that NatWest has so little interest in the problem as my investigations indicate this phone thing is now happening on a huge scale. You would think they would want to stop the losses on the NatWest accounts being used....I have heard nothing back from them since I reported the misuse of NatWest branch and account codes yesterday.

Natwest wouldn't tell a member of the public what actions they are taking against fraud. They aren't allowed by law to do so, even if the member of the public is the fraudster. For the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting you have anything to do with the fraud - just stating the facts. Don't expect to hear much more from Natwest! but don't associate that with them doing nothing.

usignuolo

NatWest told me they would contact me again shortly to confirm whether or not a fake account in my name actually exists, to put my mind at rest. I have yet to hear anything.

Meanwhile here is a lawyer's blog saying NatWest are by far the worst bank when it comes to taking action to prevent fake direct debits

http://cliffordmillerlaw.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/natwest-direct-debit-scam/

nwc389

I think that the nat west account has not been opened in your name , they have used a combination of sort code and nat west acct no that they know would go through an initial screening but by the time further checks are made they have the phone . The fraud is not that they have opened an account at a bank in your name but that they have stolen your details to take out the phone contract fraudulently.
Banks have come under intense scrutiny over care of customer data but it's a bit scary just how many other places have access to our data like phone shops, store card applications, interest free credit applications and so on and I'll wager that some of them are scarily lax with it too !!

grumbler

innovate wrote: »

Natwest wouldn't tell a member of the public what actions they are taking against fraud. They aren't allowed by law to do so, ...

May I ask what law it is?

Archi_Bald

nwc389 wrote: »

.... I'll wager that some of them are scarily lax with it too !!

Add to that that many people are scarily lax about their own data - e.g. not being ex-directory, not opting out of Electoral Roll marketing, throwing bank statements and utility bills into the bin, putting their full birthday up on social media sites, announcing on Facebook when thye go on holidays, giving their name, address and DOB to survey and competition websites etc etc etc.