How much is 'enough' for a single pensioner?

Pollycat

Living_proof wrote: »

Most of us start to face reality in our fifties, if not before, in that there will come a time when we won't be able to rely on the next pay rise, the better job etc. to see us through. We will reach a point when we retire when we are pretty much on a fixed income, with maybe just annual adjustments for inflation. Your mother in law seems to have only just worked this out for herself and the money-tree has long stopped budding.

I think £1000 per month should suffice as long as you have some savings for emergencies and to provide a little extra income. Now I have no mortgage I have to pinch myself that my outgoings are so low and once I retire I will have so much time to make household economies I think I should manage quite well. The budget won't run to too many extravagances, but I intend to be warm and well-fed and able to pay my way in the long-term

I think most people would think that is enough but the OP's MIL thinks £1365 per month AFTER bills have been paid is 'a pittance'.

And as long as she has that attitude, I doubt anyone can help her.

Well done to the OP for trying but I think she's flogging a dead horse at the moment.

margaretclare

Pollycat has said it all. I couldn't possibly add to anything she has written.

Someone with that mindset cannot be helped. She needs to see it for herself, and until she does, there is no helping her. It's like trying to get a tone-deaf person to appreciate music, or talking to a blind person about different works of art.

As regards selling the house and renting it back, this is not a good idea. She would have no security of tenure and could end up having rent increases and ultimately, eviction.

BakerBoy

There is no helping her at 74 I reckon. We all get more and more set into our ways as we get older, and while you can offer all the advice there is I don't think she will change her ways. Perhaps make it clear that if she becomes destitute you will be in no way able to support her.

Saying all that, good on her for not wanting to be the richest person in the graveyard.

ohreally

http://www.minimumincome.org.uk/

Also read Joseph Rowantree research on the subject.

Parsimonia

Thanks for your input folks - I know she appears to be incorrigible, but I need to keep trying to get through to her. Failure isn't an option!

If I don't manage to help her to change her ways and take some responsibility, she'll just carry on with her headlong rush to insolvency, and I dread to think how she'd cope if she had to survive on her pension alone, with no emergency or rainy day fund.

If she doesn't change and runs through her remaining capital, she'll then start running up a huge overdraft and huge credit card bills . She hasn't got the coping skills to retrench and recover from a mountain of debt, so it's much better to try to prevent her getting into debt in the first place.

After a bit of gentle persuasion, she let me go through her bank statements this morning. She has a balance of £400 in one current account and she's overdrawn by £6,700 on her other current account. Her savings account has a balance of £18,600. She owes £2,800 on one credit card and £4,900 on another.

So, really, instead of having £20,000 as she asserted last week, she actually has only £4,600. At her current rate of spending, that won't even last her until Easter!

I think I scared her a bit today by drawing a doomsday scenario for her, so she did finally relent and allow us to take her credit cards and her checkbook home with us. We left her with £150 in cash to last her until next Friday, and she was horrified, as if we'd left her with tuppence.

Hubby is going to take her grocery shopping in Aldi tomorrow, and allow her to spend (no more than £20!) of her £150 on stocking up her fridge and cupboards.

She's only signed up to this 'experiment' for one week, so we'll see how it goes.

I think my name is mud at the moment and I expect I'm being royally slagged off to all her friends for being an interfering witch....but she asked for my help, and this is the only way I can see of helping her in a practical and concrete way.

It's awful, because it feels like we're being terrible people by treating her as though she's a child who can't take care of her own money...and part of me just wants to say "S*d it, just leave her to it, if she bankrupts herself it's her own stupid fault..."

But, really, she is like a child when it comes to budgeting, and I'd feel even more guilty if we just stood by and let her spiral into debt. We need to take responsibility for her, since she can't seem to take responsibility for herself....

Are we doing the right thing? Or should we just stop interfering???

Errata

Are we doing the right thing? Or should we just stop interfering???

As your MIL doesn't sound right in the head, yes you are.

margaretclare

BakerBoy wrote: »

There is no helping her at 74 I reckon. We all get more and more set into our ways as we get older, and while you can offer all the advice there is I don't think she will change her ways. Perhaps make it clear that if she becomes destitute you will be in no way able to support her.

It is possible to learn in later life, but only if you want to. It's the much-quoted lightbulb moment.

She sounds as if she's the type of woman who always looks to a man to be a meal-ticket. I didn't know there were any of these still around! If she'd ever had to work for a living, and live on what she earned, she would have learned.

I hope that you're able to get through to her. The first step would be to work out a budget, putting priority spending first. You sound as if you've done that.

Parsimonia

margaretclare wrote: »

If she'd ever had to work for a living, and live on what she earned, she would have learned.

Believe it or not, she used to be self-employed as a beautician and designer boutique owner...unfortunately she drew too much out of the business and had to file for bankruptcy.

She paid a top notch accountant but ignored his advice and spent money as though it was monopoly money.....her second husband had to bail her out three times....so, it's not as though she has had no experience of financial dealings...

Unfortunately beauty, fashion and being stylish are her achilles heel - when you're in your 70s it costs a lot of money to keep up with women half your age. It's quite sad really....

moneyistooshorttomention

Parsimonia wrote: »

Oh, I don't think she's a bad person at all. She's kind, warm, generous-hearted, empathetic - she's a very lovable person....but just hopeless with money and a spending addict!

~Errrm....wry look probably on my face at the thought of her being empathetic. Reason being...she must know she is basically grabbing her stepkids inheritance and blowing the lot on herself. That doesn't sound particularly empathetic to me to spend someone else's money like that.

As to what a pensioner can live on. My own personal income is currently pretty much to the £ what I would have if it were State Pension Credit and any "bits and bobs" (like heating allowance) thrown in. I think I'm managing to live on this. I cant be quite sure whether I'm using my savings to help myself out a bit here. I've been having to do this for some months (courtesy of having retired at my Retirement Age, but my revised SPA is higher than that).

I couldn't live on that indefinitely, as sooner or later I will definitely need to have my spare income back again...as clothes and other possessions need replacing and for any unexpected expenses to come up.

My income will return to normal (ie low) when I get the rest of my pension and that will be around £1,200 per month. I think that should be enough to live on then (bearing in mind I don't require money for rent or mortgage any more and shop around for cheapest utility and insurance suppliers). I won't be gadding around the world on my full normal income and still wouldn't be able to afford a car and its just as well I don't require money for being a smoker/having grandchildren or having pets.

moneyistooshorttomention

On another tack, I can understand that it costs more to keep up appearance after a certain age...tell me about it....

I just took a good look around at men in my own age group once I got to that certain age though and decided I was no longer interested in "the opposite sex" as such. Maybe it's down to the fact that, looking back, most of my boyfriends back in my younger days were good-looking (whether instead or as well as other qualities:rotfl:) and I therefore look at same age men and think "Well, its not worth making any more effort than normal in that case":rotfl:. So I'll admit to being surprised at a woman in her 70s thinking its worth bothering with boyfriends any longer...