EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014

RandomCurve

esmith1234 wrote: »

Hi,

I sent off the first email on 13th and have sent 3 chaser emails with no response.

I have now received a voicemail from someone in the executive office asking me to call them back.

I'm not sure how to handle this as I don't feel as knowledgable about this as some of the people on this forum are and I am concerned I may put my foot in it if I enter into a debate on the phone!

Any advice as to what she may say and how I should respond would be most welcome!

Thanks!

If you want a penalty free cancellation, and nothing else, and your contract was taken out after 30th October 2012, then just tell tem that is what you want due to the change in T&Cs which would give them the right to apply the higher RPI inflation rate, when currently the lower CPI inflation rate is all they can apply.



If they refuse the penalty free cancellation ask them to explain on what grounds they are refusing (ignore what ever they say - except to repeat on the forum for us), and ask for CISAS Deadlock reference.


On the other hand if you don't mind staying with EE then decide what YOU WANT as a deal and ask them for it (I suggest the SIM only equivalent of your current contract PLUS a written guarantee of no price rises.


Don't forget you can always say you want some time to think about the offer, if they say "it is only available if you decide now" then you KNOW they are trying to cheat you (again!) so just say no.

RandomCurve

Liam-1987 wrote: »

Now just received this from EE

Hello Lee,

Yes, we are changing the terms and conditions to mean that if we raise the price above the rate of inflation you can cancel.

It is within our rights to raise the price of your contract in line with the rate of inflation.

Thanks,
William

Use the template letters! This is typical EE smokescreen technique.


"Yes, we are changing the terms and conditions to mean that if we raise the price above the rate of inflation you can cancel."
Yes this is a fact, but they don't add that this gives you a right to cancel!


"It is within our rights to raise the price of your contract in line with the rate of inflation"
It is if you accept the change!, but again they don't mention that, and notice the use of the word "inflation" where has RPI gone???? They are deflecting the RPI/CPI argument by just using the generic term "inflation"


Gosh this company make me mad, but I have to admire their ability to Wriggle and cheat without actually lying, I think they must run special master classes in it, possible with visiting politicians!

RandomCurve

Samarkand wrote: »

Well after 18 days and 7 emails got my 1st reply and it stated no further discussion. Is it easy to negotiate CICAS.

I have 2 contracts do i need to fill in 2 seperate CICAS forms or just the one.
Thanks

If they are for the same EE "brand" and are both either Pre or Post October 2012 ten you can do one claim, otherwise do 2 because the adjudicator gets confused over which contract terms they are looking at (I've seen it happen!).

RandomCurve

BananaPilot wrote: »

I submitted my application to CICAS on 24/02/2014.

Just got an e-mail from them confirming my application and giving me my reference number. The 10 working days countdown has been started from today.

Hopefully this can all go ahead smoothly now, but just a word of caution for all.


Last year when T-Mobile applied the wrong inflation rate, a group of us went to CISAS and CISAS accepted the claims - as they are now. However a week or so later CISAS wrote to everyone saying that EE and CISAS top officials had met and that CISAS could not handle the claims as they related to EEs business decision (see how INDEPENDANT THEY ARE!!!). I had to send several emails to the press and Ofcom before Ofcom intervened and told CISAS they had to take the cases.


I hope the above does not happen here, but I have anticipated the potential for this to happen again and have already asked Ofcom to confirm that this is the type of case CISAS should take on. Ofcom's answer was vague, but I have followed up as per the below:


This was Ofcom's response to my request for them to explain if the scheme covers this situation (Q2 below (Q1 relates to O2)):

2 February e mail

ADR Schemes – Ofcoms response:

The ADR schemes will take on a case if it falls within their own terms of reference. They determine whether a complaint falls within their remit on a case-by-case basis by considering, among other things, the nature of each individual complaint. You should therefore contact the relevant scheme provider directly.

I have responded with the below (On Monday 24th Feb - and await a reply):

The ADR schemes were set up by Ofcom and Ofcom has the contract with the ADR scheme therefore Ofcom must have terms of reference/Service Level Agreements which will included what is and is not covered. Therefore I fail to understand why you are asking the consumer to “negotiate” with the ADR scheme. Can you please clarify if the following two points are covered by the ADR – as a reminder the Ofcom website says:

If you believe any of the terms and conditions in your ‘phone or broadband contract are unfair, you should contact your provider.

If this doesn’t resolve your problem, ask your provider for a deadlock letter. This enables you to take your complaint to an Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) scheme.

Q 1
Case 1: A challenge to a CP that their price rise is not enforceable under the UTCCRs as a price rise in a fixed term contract is unfair due to the reasons I have laid out in earlier emails (I don’t expect Ofcom to answer if it is fair or not, just if this does or does not fall within the ADR remit).


Q 2
Case 2: A CP changes its T&Cs claiming the change is not of material detriment, the consumer begs to differ .

RandomCurve

SimonD316 wrote: »

Wouldn't the 30 days start on the date you received notification? One of our phones was the 8th, and the other was the 12th?

It seem texts were not al sent on the same day, the earliest I am aware of is 4th Feb.

RandomCurve

PEllix wrote: »

I haven't posted on this thread yet, but I have been following it closely, and have sent the first three emails (to the executive team) that RandomCurve generously provided.

I am on a pre-October 2012 T-Mobile Contract, am I correct in thinking that I shouldn't use the templates in post #267 and #269 to submit a claim to CISAS in that I should remove the extensive section arguing the difference between the CPI and RPI?

I think I have a paper copy of my original terms and conditions at home, I shall try to look it out this evening.

Pre October 2012 contract should NOT use the templates at #267 and #269. I will put something together for you guys ASAP - hopefully before Sunday.


I'm trying to help the O2 guys out as well - and there was the case of the T-Mobile "November 2012" price "adjustments" which I am helping some people fight, and of course I have an ongoing battle Ofcom and am taking them to the parliamentary ombudsman! - Never a dull moment with such a corrupt market.

esmith1234

I had my phone call with the woman from the executive office and she was just trying to say that there was no change to the terms and conditions at all. She said they have always used RPI and they still are, i.e. that they were not making any changes to the measure of inflation. She said that the only reason for the change in the terms and conditions was to make them easier to understand.

I asked why they felt the need to change them at all and she just kept repeating that it was to make them easier to understand and for no other reason. It definitely felt like I was banging my head against a brick wall as she wouldn't even admit they were making any real changes at all.

She also said that "EE are a really large organisation and we would certainly never make any changes to your terms and conditions that would be of material detriment to you, and we had our legal team look at this before we made any changes to the terms and conditions"!!!

I asked her to send me confirmation of everything she told me, including exactly how the rewording would make things easier to understand and explaining that the statistic used to measure inflation was the same before and after the change and she said that wouldn't be a problem. So far I am still waiting for her to send me this.

shafeeq

Hi

I took out a contract with orange on 6th October 2012.. I used the template on #267 and #269, was a wrong to do so? This morning I done my online form and sent the documentation.

Thanks Shafeeq

RandomCurve wrote: »

Pre October 2012 contract should NOT use the templates at #267 and #269. I will put something together for you guys ASAP - hopefully before Sunday.


I'm trying to help the O2 guys out as well - and there was the case of the T-Mobile "November 2012" price "adjustments" which I am helping some people fight, and of course I have an ongoing battle Ofcom and am taking them to the parliamentary ombudsman! - Never a dull moment with such a corrupt market.

RandomCurve

shafeeq wrote: »

Hi

I took out a contract with orange on 6th October 2012.. I used the template on #267 and #269, was a wrong to do so? This morning I done my online form and sent the documentation.

Thanks Shafeeq

I'm sorry, but those posts were for post 30th October 2012, the pre 30th October 2012 contract clauses are different - I should have made it clearer (I have updated the post to hopefully make it so).


Best to give CISAS a call and find out how you cancel the claim and resubmit.

RandomCurve

esmith1234 wrote: »

I had my phone call with the woman from the executive office and she was just trying to say that there was no change to the terms and conditions at all. She said they have always used RPI and they still are, i.e. that they were not making any changes to the measure of inflation. She said that the only reason for the change in the terms and conditions was to make them easier to understand.

I asked why they felt the need to change them at all and she just kept repeating that it was to make them easier to understand and for no other reason. It definitely felt like I was banging my head against a brick wall as she wouldn't even admit they were making any real changes at all.

She also said that "EE are a really large organisation and we would certainly never make any changes to your terms and conditions that would be of material detriment to you, and we had our legal team look at this before we made any changes to the terms and conditions"!!!

I asked her to send me confirmation of everything she told me, including exactly how the rewording would make things easier to understand and explaining that the statistic used to measure inflation was the same before and after the change and she said that wouldn't be a problem. So far I am still waiting for her to send me this.

"She said they have always used RPI..."
YES you could have cancelled your contract the last time they increased the prices!!!


"...and they still are"
Thought so you'll get your price rise letters between 27th March and 8th April!!!


"she just kept repeating that it was to make them easier to understand and for no other reason"
Proof that EE use the poor souls on 150 just as a block to weed out those who are not serious about the complaint, or who are not so sure of the facts -they must fob off hundreds of customers a day!


"... and we had our legal team look at this before we made any changes to the terms and conditions"
That would be the same legal team who messed up last years price rise, and then kept telling me that whilst my contract stated they had to use an RPI rate published BEFORE they wrote to me they had complied with that clause by using an RPI rate published AFTER they wrote to me - that great logic from their legal team got me £150 in compensation due to their incompetence . So don't be at all "frightened" that the EE legal team have reviewed it - consider it a bonus!!!