Leaving HL without transfer charges

gterr

Some advice, please, from those who have gone down the FOS route before:


What would be the correct order of events if I were contemplating doing the same? Do I contact HL before transferring out, to ask them to waive the fee for transferring in specie, and wait for them to decline? Then can I go ahead and transfer out and incur the fee, and attempt to have this reimbursed at a later date after approaching the FOS?


I don't want to have to wait until the FOS has determined before I transfer out because I want to avoid the increased fees associated with staying after March 1st.


And if, by chance, anyone here is planning to approach the FOS is there any chance I could have sight of the letter so that I could use the same wording?

cepheus

Is it worth mentioning the current transfer fees and changes in the header post? I think this is correct, but it's a bit of a dogs dinner finding out the entire story. Seems it might be best to change SIPPs after 2nd June, although it's still unclear if the SIPP charge is waived altogether or reduced to same as ISA.

Current Charges

ISA

Account closure fee No charge
Transfer out (as cash) No charge
Transfer out (as stock) £25 per holding

SIPP

Transfer out to a UK scheme £75
(This fee will be removed on 2 June 2014.)

New charges changes in addition to above fees

Account closure fee £25 +VAT
(This fee does not apply to closing an account to transfer between a SIPP, Group SIPP and Drawdown. For all other accounts it will be introduced on 2 June 2014.)

Cash transfer out to another provider £25
(This fee will apply to all cash transfers to other providers from 2 June 2014.)

lejog2003

masonic wrote: »

Yes, I can remember being notified. There was an article in their Investment Times magazine and it was mentioned in the covering letter. Perhaps if you opted out of their junk mail you wouldn't have received it though. I thought they had sent out a secure message, but checking back through my inbox it looks as though they didn't.

I don't receive Investment Times but I found a secure message dated 31/12/2012

Changes to Vantage Terms & Conditions
For your information only – no action necessary

We have amended some of the terms of the Vantage Service to improve the clarity.


Please note we have not changed any charges, interest rates or the way in which the Vantage Service operates.


The new terms simply better define which part of Hargreaves Lansdown provides the services clients receive, offer more detail about the way in which some aspects of our service operate (such as how interest is calculated on cash) and explain when we can’t deal for US and Irish residents. They also describe how and why we may change our terms and conditions in future and your options if we do.



Are the changes in the variation clause merely an improvement in clarity? They seem substantial to me.


Thanks to you all for your suggestions, in the next few days I'll be writing a letter of complaint re exit charges and them charging new platform fees if transfer isn't completed by 1st March

SnowMan

gterr wrote: »

And if, by chance, anyone here is planning to approach the FOS is there any chance I could have sight of the letter so that I could use the same wording?

Here is a template you could use:


Dear sir or madam

Complaint

I received notice from you on {} of a significant/massive {delete as applicable} increase in my platform charges from {detail old charge} to {detail new charge or state multiple of old charges e.g. 4 times} from 1st March 2014.

As a result of the significant/massive {delete as applicable} increase in charges, I am now looking to re-register my investments to another platform.

Please can you confirm that all exit charges (including re-registration charges, and selling fees) will be waived on my arranging a move to another platform. In addition if there is a delay in re-registering investments to a new platform that the changes to your platform fee and exit fees won’t apply while the transfer away is being processed.

{note if the re-registration charges of £25 per fund for ISAs and dealing account, flat £75 for SIPPs represent a multiple of your existing annual platform charge, such as 3 times your current annual charge, then you might want to mention that also here}

Should you be unable to agree to the waiving of all exit charges, I would refer you to your requirement to ‘treat customers fairly’, the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Legislation 1999, the FSA (now FCA) Finalised Guidance of Jan 2012 titled ‘Unfair Contract Terms Improving Standards in Consumer Contracts’, and of my right to take a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service in 8 weeks from the date of this communication.

I would also mention the regulatory reason that Hargreaves Lansdown are trying to use to increase charges without allowing free exit (albeit the OFT guidance makes it clear there is not a valid reason route to fairness on a price increase) was itself only introduced in January 2013. That January 2013 was introduced without allowing customers the opportunity of a free exit. So as I joined Hargreaves Lansdown before January 2013 the current change is effectively a unilateral change to terms and conditions that applied when I invested with Hargreaves Lansdown, without allowing a customer a free exit (via a two step change made in quick succession).

Yours faithfully

KTF

I have a unit trust ISA in a H&L Vantage account which is worth a few k at most.

Looking at the new fees, I cant work out if I will be better or worse off. Is there an easy way or working this out and if I will be worse off, who should I move it to to avoid any more fees?

lejog2003

cepheus wrote: »

Is it worth mentioning the current transfer fees and changes in the header post? I think this is correct, still unclear if SIPP charge is waived altogether or reduced to same as ISA. Seems it might be best to change SIPPs after 2nd June!

"From 2 June 2014, the SIPP charges for transferring to another provider (currently £75) will be the same as the ISA and Fund & Share Account charges: £25 per stock for stock transfers and £25 for cash transfers."

So in my case (transfer of 3 funds) the charge remains the same. And I would have to cough up £300 in increased platform fees from March to June.

masonic

gterr wrote: »

What would be the correct order of events if I were contemplating doing the same? Do I contact HL before transferring out, to ask them to waive the fee for transferring in specie, and wait for them to decline? Then can I go ahead and transfer out and incur the fee, and attempt to have this reimbursed at a later date after approaching the FOS?

This is the route I'm going to follow. I've already made a request for the in specie transfer fee to be waived and received their response. I'm now going to push ahead with the transfer anyway and construct a complaint to send HL when I get charged (assuming they don't back down in the interim as I believe has happened before).

I'm more than happy to collaborate when it comes to the wording of the complaint and FOS claim.

Yorkie1

jimjames wrote: »

Yes, there is no cap for funds. The cap only applies to shares.

So someone with £2m in funds will be paying £4000 per year. Not sure of the justification of that as I can't believe the admin for 1 fund with value of £10k is any more than 1 fund with a value of £2m.

This was put to the HL chap on R4's Money Box earlier today. His answer wasn't worth printing! (He waffled about research but essentially failed to justify the position at all).

SnowMan

gterr wrote: »

Some advice, please, from those who have gone down the FOS route before:


What would be the correct order of events if I were contemplating doing the same? Do I contact HL before transferring out, to ask them to waive the fee for transferring in specie, and wait for them to decline? Then can I go ahead and transfer out and incur the fee, and attempt to have this reimbursed at a later date after approaching the FOS?

I don't want to have to wait until the FOS has determined before I transfer out because I want to avoid the increased fees associated with staying after March 1st.

I think the process would be

a) send complaint letter asking for waived exit fees
b) find new provider and start process to re-register away
c) get final response letter (or after 8 weeks) refer to FOS
d) wait for many months :rotfl:

If your decision of how to re-register or transfer away is not affected by the outcome of the FOS decision then there is no reason to delay the transfer away as far as I can see

masonic

lejog2003 wrote: »

I don't receive Investment Times but I found a secure message dated 31/12/2012

Hmm, it's possible those changes are not the same ones that introduced the in specie transfer fee. From the description, it appears those changes were the ones that set out "valid reasons" for future changes. I think the date of the message suggests this happened after the additional fee was introduced as they would have had to give at least 30 days notice for the latter change and I don't think that would fit the timeline as I understand it.