Leaving HL without transfer charges

RebTech

gterr wrote: »

Can I copy the FREEPOST address onto another envelope, or would it be better to treat one of our complaint letters to a stamp?

Freepost addresses can be used with any suitably sized envelope, no stamp required.

agombar

SnowMan wrote: »

Welcome to the forum. Many thanks for posting this up. A very interesting development indeed.

What specific exit fees are we talking about in your case that they are waiving?

And what argument were you using. Increased costs? Increase in exit fees in the future? Unilateral change to create the regulatory change condition in the first place?

I Here was my message to them:

COMPLAINT – Unilateral Increase in Charges
I received notice from you earlier this month of a significant increase in your charges from 1st March 2014. Following this increase, I believe that I will be significantly worse off on a number of accounts.
- Since I hold a mixture of shares and investment trusts, the amended charge for holding investment trusts will result in a 100% increase in my annual charges.
- The change in your exit charges from £75 flat to £25 per holding, would be a very significant amount if I ever wish to exit.
- The £25 account closure would be an additional charge if I ever wish to exit.
- The probate valuation charge of up to £500 which whilst I would hope to never need to pay (or be paid to value my account) appears excessive when compared to other providers.

I believe that none of these changes are required by any changes in regulation.
As a result of the significant increase in charges, I am now looking to transfer my investments to another provider. Since the reason I wish to transfer is due to your unilateral variation of the contract I do not believe it is fair to expect me to pay any exit charges. This is because I believe it is unfair only offering me two unacceptable options i.e. to either (1) accept charges I would never have originally agreed to, or (2) pay to avoid these changes. Neither option is reasonable. To be reasonable you also need to offer either (a) the option to continue the contract on the current charges or (b) the opportunity to exit without charge.

If you refuse to give me the opportunity to exit without charge then please treat this response as an official complaint. I believe that by denying me a free exit your unilateral increase in charges is both unfair and contrary to FSA and OFT guidance. (For example section 12.4 of the OFT's “Guidance for the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999” published in September 2008 highlights that a valid reason for varying a contract, such as a regulatory change, is NOT sufficient for a price change to be fair. Consumers must also be given the chance to cancel freely.)


This complaint applies to both my SIPP and ISA accounts. There is nothing unusual to consider about my case. Therefore I expect a prompt answer.

Please do not telephone me about this matter. For evidence purposes I wish all communication to be in writing.

Am I missing something? Are they still going to attempt to charge me somehow. I want to to transfer a number of investment trusts, shares and few other funds.

naedanger

agombar wrote: »

Am I missing something? Are they still going to attempt to charge me somehow. I want to to transfer a number of investment trusts, shares and few other funds.

I don't think you are missing anything. HL's reply said you had to elect to transfer within one month. I don't think they require you to complete it within a month.

You could accept their offer subject to (1) their understanding that you will elect rather than complete the transfer within the month and (2) their agreement not to levy any of the new charges if your transfer is not completed within the month.

I don't think they will quibble.

ffacoffipawb

agombar wrote: »

I Here was my message to them:

COMPLAINT – Unilateral Increase in Charges
I received notice from you earlier this month of a significant increase in your charges from 1st March 2014. Following this increase, I believe that I will be significantly worse off on a number of accounts.
- Since I hold a mixture of shares and investment trusts, the amended charge for holding investment trusts will result in a 100% increase in my annual charges.
- The change in your exit charges from £75 flat to £25 per holding, would be a very significant amount if I ever wish to exit.
- The £25 account closure would be an additional charge if I ever wish to exit.
- The probate valuation charge of up to £500 which whilst I would hope to never need to pay (or be paid to value my account) appears excessive when compared to other providers.

I believe that none of these changes are required by any changes in regulation.
As a result of the significant increase in charges, I am now looking to transfer my investments to another provider. Since the reason I wish to transfer is due to your unilateral variation of the contract I do not believe it is fair to expect me to pay any exit charges. This is because I believe it is unfair only offering me two unacceptable options i.e. to either (1) accept charges I would never have originally agreed to, or (2) pay to avoid these changes. Neither option is reasonable. To be reasonable you also need to offer either (a) the option to continue the contract on the current charges or (b) the opportunity to exit without charge.

If you refuse to give me the opportunity to exit without charge then please treat this response as an official complaint. I believe that by denying me a free exit your unilateral increase in charges is both unfair and contrary to FSA and OFT guidance. (For example section 12.4 of the OFT's “Guidance for the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999” published in September 2008 highlights that a valid reason for varying a contract, such as a regulatory change, is NOT sufficient for a price change to be fair. Consumers must also be given the chance to cancel freely.)


This complaint applies to both my SIPP and ISA accounts. There is nothing unusual to consider about my case. Therefore I expect a prompt answer.

Please do not telephone me about this matter. For evidence purposes I wish all communication to be in writing.

Am I missing something? Are they still going to attempt to charge me somehow. I want to to transfer a number of investment trusts, shares and few other funds.

I got nowhere with this arrogant company ....


Thank you for your email.

In spite of the information you provided in your email link, in the present circumstance our position remains the same as that expressed in previous correspondence. Our Terms & Conditions comply with Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) regulations and we are not required to permit a free transfer. Should you decide to transfer out your Vantage SIPP, you will be subject to a fee of £75 until 2 June 2014. I have attached our transfer out form to this email for your convenience.

This is our final response on this matter.

I trust you find this to be in order; if you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me either by e-mail or on 0117 980 9926.

Kind regards

Stefan Shaw
Hargreaves Lansdown Asset Management

masonic

ffacoffipawb wrote: »

I got nowhere with this arrogant company ....

At least they've said the magic words...

This is our final response on this matter.

ffacoffipawb

masonic wrote: »

At least they've said the magic words...

I have asked for confirmation in writing as the Ombudsman requires.


SIPPDEAL will reimburse this penalty charge, but that isn't the point is it?

masonic

ffacoffipawb wrote: »

I have asked for confirmation in writing as the Ombudsman requires.

Technically, a secure message would qualify as "in writing", although I have my doubts your correspondence has been treated as a formal complaint if they are still using secure messages to communicate with you. They also don't appear to have been following their own complaints process, which states:

Outcome of our investigations
After investigating your complaint, once we have obtained all the necessary information from you, we will provide you with our response to your complaint. This will explain clearly:

i. the outcome of our investigation
ii. your right to refer the matter to the FOS if you remain unhappy with the outcome
iii. the nature and terms of any offer of settlement we consider may be appropriate or our specific reasons for declining to offer any settlement.

However, it is not for you to speculate about whether or not they understood your message as a complaint. "Final response" is not ambiguous and if I were you I'd either be using that as a green light to escalate to the FOS, or at least contacting the FOS to ask them what to do next (since you haven't been told by HL).

ffacoffipawb

masonic wrote: »

Technically, a secure message would qualify as "in writing", although I have my doubts your correspondence has been treated as a formal complaint if they are still using secure messages to communicate with you. They also don't appear to have been following their own complaints process, which states:



However, it is not for you to speculate about whether or not they understood your message as a complaint. "Final response" is not ambiguous and if I were you I'd either be using that as a green light to escalate to the FOS, or at least contacting the FOS to ask them what to do next (since you haven't been told by HL).

My response should be unambiguous, short and to the point as I have wasted enough time on this already, that this is a complaint (and before I knew that secure massages are classed as 'In writing' ....


I wish to make a complaint to the ombudsman about this position.

Please confirm IN WRITING that you still intend to charge me this unfair fee. I need confirmation in writing because that is what the Ombudsman requires.


(Responding to an unfriendly e-mail in a similar tone)

naedanger

ffacoffipawb wrote: »

My response should be unambiguous, short and to the point as I have wasted enough time on this already, that this is a complaint (and before I knew that secure massages are classed as 'In writing' ....


I wish to make a complaint to the ombudsman about this position.

Please confirm IN WRITING that you still intend to charge me this unfair fee. I need confirmation in writing because that is what the Ombudsman requires.


(Responding to an unfriendly e-mail in a similar tone)

Personally I would follow Masonic's approach and now take the complaint to FOS. But if you wish to send them a final email, and you have not sent it already, you could add the following paragraph, if appropriate, at the end. (I am not certain the information in brackets is correct but the text does use the wording "... I thought ..." to cover the possibility it is not correct.)

Please also confirm you have followed your own complaints handling process in dealing with my complaint? (I am surprised that you have not sent me a copy of it and have also not told me of my right to take my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, as I thought this was a regulatory requirement.)


[For what it is worth, I have still to receive a final response from HL.]

juliamarsh

gterr wrote: »

I sent a PM to HL asking, specifically, if they intended to levy the new 0.45% charges if my account transfers (already requested) had not been completed by the time the new charges started, or would they waive them, given the circumstances. They replied that the new charges WOULD be levied from 1st March if my transfers had not completed by then.


II say that they anticipate the transfer to them will take between 6 and 8 weeks, and if that is the case I'll be paying HL's new charges in the interim.

Yesterday I rang them up to ask about this very matter and was given different information to what you have been told. The person I spoke to asked his colleague, came back to me and said that they would be applying their charges at the end of each month, and therefore as long as our investments were gone out of the account by 1st April we would not be charged!