can i ask the jobcentre for proof

sensibleadvice

sniggings wrote: »

you will know then that these "agreements" are one sided, refuse to sign it and you don't get JSA.

A rule of getting JSA is also to apply for all jobs you can do, as you say they go by the direct gov site, (also in my agreement I have to use Monster and indeed) so if I do not apply for every single job on that site and in my case indeed and Monster, I can be sanctioned, my agreement says I have to apply for 6 jobs a week but as said it also says all jobs I'm able to do, this is clearly a way to make getting asanction inevitable, if the adviser wishes. I do not and can not apply for that many jobs a week, the cost in phone calls, stamps and ink and paper, never mind travel cost, if I were to get interviews, would make it impossible and unreasonable.

You talk a good talk, but the facts are, these sanctions are being handled out to people they should not be used for, and if others on here are to be believed, targets are now being set for sanctioning people.

You don't think the 'problem' and cost associated with getting interviews would ultimately be worthwhile?

Morglin

On £71.50 per week, all extra costs can be a real problem, I would have thought.

Lin

sensibleadvice

Morglin wrote: »

On £71.50 per week, all extra costs can be a real problem, I would have thought.

Lin

Possibly, but then it's a question of priorities and the cost of getting to an interview that could get them off £71.50 would be a priority I would have thought.

sniggings

wannabedebtfreeplease wrote: »

You're correct targets were set for sanctions, but not solely for sanctions for policing the benefit. I personally cannot speak for your area, but my jcp I ran the DMa sections and every referral was sent via me and every referral was within valid reason, they won't send a referral for referral sake as they have to gain a disallowance rate. They would fail for sending referrals that weren't meant and subsequently allowed, so the FACTS are that in my jcp the referrals were on target and disallowed accordingly because they were just deserved. We'd very often find the sharp reaction would be they'd adhere to their JSAG and low and behold would be signed off into matching employment and thank us for the push to be active... Literally I've received thank you cards for this exact reason.

The argument regarding not affording phone calls won't be a viable argument as travels costs probably wouldn't either. Where I worked, calls to employers could be made via our telephones and there was a travel to interview scheme that reimbursed and on occasions where rail could be used a warrant issued so there really wasn't a reason to not afford to go to interviews. Obv this May have ceased to exist now but no shame in asking just incase it does still exist.

Like I said it is hard but for every genuine person job hunting and willing to succeed there was at least 9 that we're not and we're getting money for nothing, they would come in a pics the pen up to sign didn't want to listen to anything and definitely never read the declaration they were signing.

Also regarding the JSAG there are now guidelines that your Jcp should be using for example it has to be reasonable. Claiming you would check monster and you stating applying for all jobs on the website isn't reasonable. There was a specific section on the JSAG that ascertained exactly how many jobs you were expected to apply for but yes any 100% matching vacancy that is there you should apply, if you applied for the 6 required but there was 8 they would most definitely question it.

If you feel you're JSAG is unreasonable, my advice would to be asked for it reviewed according to the guidelines given, you'll be surprised to find that I bet your advisor doesn't even know the guidance page exists in their own intranet. I know a lot of incompetent advisors who were in the I've worked here since 1970 something and I'll do it my way! Which obv isn't the right way to be evolving in an ever changing role.

& I talk the talk, really it was my job that I loved which I did successfully with great thanks from customers in my area and staff alike.

thanks for that info, yours sounds half decent, they all are not like that.

I asked about travel money and was told, no fares allowed if it's within 90 minutes of home, so basically no fares as I can not afford to take a job further than that.

I had 2 interviews in 2 weeks, that's £7 in fares, doesn't sound a lot, but when I'm only getting £48 a week, as a crisis loans comes off my benefit and I get my water paid directly, it doesn't leave much to buy ink and paper with.

No my Jobcenter does not have phones for us to use, getting there is not easy either, they have direct dial phones to contact the main centre, and even with those you have to ask for the handset as they are removed, oh and so where the seats as they said they needed the space :rotfl:, I asked and said, surely someone standing using the phone or sitting takes up the same space but they were told to remove them.

And you must have worked there a long time ago, as they is no declaration, it's just a box to sign.

I agree some people need pushing but surely there is a better way to do it that stop there money, I consider my self a reasonable person, wants to work, but the stress of signing on and wondering if today was the day I would get sanctioned has not helped me find work, it has only made be want to play the system, do the min I can, daft I know but it's been shown if you treat someone a certain way they will start acting that way.

Get them in 9-5 if you have to but stopping money for being late to a signing on or because you didn't apply for Avon is daft, and yes there are good advisers out there, I must admit most of the oncs I have delt with have been fine, the odd one not so good.

sniggings

sensibleadvice wrote: »

You don't think the 'problem' and cost associated with getting interviews would ultimately be worthwhile?

of course, that is why I went, but you do not get every job you go for, buses fares out of £48 a week is not easy.

ray1971

red_devil wrote: »

Jc say i didnt look for enough work one week and they found jobs. Can i ask them to prove it, they might just be saying it. I am in the middle of appeal.

When your case was referred to the decision maker, the referring coach/advisor SHOULD have provided the decision maker with a list of suitable vacancies that you could have applied for.They could have got these vacancies from any of the available jobsites bearing in mind what type of work is recorded on your Jobseekers Agreement/Claimant Commitment.
The referrals to the LMDM are made electronically and you are able to request this information if you submit such a request to your JCP office.
Hope this helps.

wannabedebtfreeplease

sniggings wrote: »

thanks for that info, yours sounds half decent, they all are not like that.

I asked about travel money and was told, no fares allowed if it's within 90 minutes of home, so basically no fares as I can not afford to take a job further than that.

I had 2 interviews in 2 weeks, that's £7 in fares, doesn't sound a lot, but when I'm only getting £48 a week, as a crisis loans comes off my benefit and I get my water paid directly, it doesn't leave much to buy ink and paper with.

No my Jobcenter does not have phones for us to use, getting there is not easy either, they have direct dial phones to contact the main centre, and even with those you have to ask for the handset as they are removed, oh and so where the seats as they said they needed the space :rotfl:, I asked and said, surely someone standing using the phone or sitting takes up the same space but they were told to remove them.

And you must have worked there a long time ago, as they is no declaration, it's just a box to sign.

I agree some people need pushing but surely there is a better way to do it that stop there money, I consider my self a reasonable person, wants to work, but the stress of signing on and wondering if today was the day I would get sanctioned has not helped me find work, it has only made be want to play the system, do the min I can, daft I know but it's been shown if you treat someone a certain way they will start acting that way.

Get them in 9-5 if you have to but stopping money for being late to a signing on or because you didn't apply for Avon is daft, and yes there are good advisers out there, I must admit most of the oncs I have delt with have been fine, the odd one not so good.

Mine definitely sounds reasonable, and not too long left in 2012 you will probably be surprised that on the other side of the 'boxes' where you sign there is a declaration that they are supposed to show you and your supposed to read it before signing it and btw if you sign it and then they try to put you up for actively seeking employment.... They haven't a leg to stand on once you've signed that declaration they have really agreed, it's supposed to be given to sign at the end when they are satisfied you have done enough.

I think Tis is now abolished and has been replaced by the flexible support fund which is basically a pot of Money the jobcentre has to use at the advisors discretion, if you were to apply for fsf and explain why you need to access it... The jobcentre manager and advisor will need good reason if the decline to support you, because it is a barrier to work for you therefore they are meant to be freeing you of restrictions and barriers,

I know I'm my jobcentre the fsf has been used for this many times in the past, and has been used for other barriers such as clothes for interviews or starting work and also help with travel costs for the 1st month of starting work and the phones and seat are still there although I am making it sound better it still had its 'challenging' individuals

Good Luck

red_devil

ray1971 wrote: »

When your case was referred to the decision maker, the referring coach/advisor SHOULD have provided the decision maker with a list of suitable vacancies that you could have applied for.They could have got these vacancies from any of the available jobsites bearing in mind what type of work is recorded on your Jobseekers Agreement/Claimant Commitment.
The referrals to the LMDM are made electronically and you are able to request this information if you submit such a request to your JCP office.
Hope this helps.

thanks, he sent it to the dm, then i got a phone call to say that more jobs were found but they havent proved it. Still waiting to hear.

sniggings

wannabedebtfreeplease wrote: »

Mine definitely sounds reasonable, and not too long left in 2012 you will probably be surprised that on the other side of the 'boxes' where you sign there is a declaration that they are supposed to show you and your supposed to read it before signing it and btw if you sign it and then they try to put you up for actively seeking employment.... They haven't a leg to stand on once you've signed that declaration they have really agreed, it's supposed to be given to sign at the end when they are satisfied you have done enough.

I think Tis is now abolished and has been replaced by the flexible support fund which is basically a pot of Money the jobcentre has to use at the advisors discretion, if you were to apply for fsf and explain why you need to access it... The jobcentre manager and advisor will need good reason if the decline to support you, because it is a barrier to work for you therefore they are meant to be freeing you of restrictions and barriers,

I know I'm my jobcentre the fsf has been used for this many times in the past, and has been used for other barriers such as clothes for interviews or starting work and also help with travel costs for the 1st month of starting work and the phones and seat are still there although I am making it sound better it still had its 'challenging' individuals

Good Luck

good to know, the only thing I can see on the signing paper, is my other signatures, no other writing, as you say they must cover that part up then, I have been signing on for a year now and must have only been asked the question "have I done any work in the last 2 weeks" 3 times, normally it's "how is it going" that could be down to the fact I see myself as reasonably presented and trying to get work, so they may see that too so don't give me the full treatment? in the jobcentre is not too bad but som eof the sights on the work programme are shocking, the stuff some people think it's acceptable to ware, one girl I saw had a face the colour of a satsuma, it was jaw dropping and another I saw was wearing ripped black fish net stocking and a pair of mini shorts, again I kid you not, she looked like she just popped in from servicing a client, sorry to be crude but it was that bad, yet I'm the one feeling the pressure, these people seem to sale through the system untouched?

Regarding the fund they have, I have asked twice now for help and both times was flatly told there was none, once asking for help with a bus ticket for an interview, as I had already paid for one extra bus fare that week for an interview, so I was short of money, was told no help unless it's more than 1 hour 30 away on public transport, a daft rule as £3.50 for one fare is still a lot of money.
As I have just got a job, I asked is there any help as i have to work a month before I get paid and also buy a travel ticket as the job is a 2 hour round trip a day, and also some uniform as only half the uniform is provided, I was told no again, no help at all she said, not that there was a budget etc but just a no sorry there is no help!

God knows how the likes of the people on Benefit Street manage to play the system as I sure have not been able to get any more than the most basic help and I consider myself pretty with it.

busy_mom_2

sniggings wrote: »

good to know, the only thing I can see on the signing paper, is my other signatures, no other writing, as you say they must cover that part up then, I have been signing on for a year now and must have only been asked the question "have I done any work in the last 2 weeks" 3 times, normally it's "how is it going" that could be down to the fact I see myself as reasonably presented and trying to get work, so they may see that too so don't give me the full treatment? in the jobcentre is not too bad but som eof the sights on the work programme are shocking, the stuff some people think it's acceptable to ware, one girl I saw had a face the colour of a satsuma, it was jaw dropping and another I saw was wearing ripped black fish net stocking and a pair of mini shorts, again I kid you not, she looked like she just popped in from servicing a client, sorry to be crude but it was that bad, yet I'm the one feeling the pressure, these people seem to sale through the system untouched?

Regarding the fund they have, I have asked twice now for help and both times was flatly told there was none, once asking for help with a bus ticket for an interview, as I had already paid for one extra bus fare that week for an interview, so I was short of money, was told no help unless it's more than 1 hour 30 away on public transport, a daft rule as £3.50 for one fare is still a lot of money.
As I have just got a job, I asked is there any help as i have to work a month before I get paid and also buy a travel ticket as the job is a 2 hour round trip a day, and also some uniform as only half the uniform is provided, I was told no again, no help at all she said, not that there was a budget etc but just a no sorry there is no help!

God knows how the likes of the people on Benefit Street manage to play the system as I sure have not been able to get any more than the most basic help and I consider myself pretty with it.

Are you on WP? If so you are not eligble for JCP funding.
For those not on WP FsF doesn't cover travel within 90 mins, not an adviser rule so please do not blame the adviser. If FsF is issued incorrectly the adviser faces disaplinery action.