The extremely dreaded Atos Assessment

Morglin

I did read the thread, but if you read the regulations, he can formally request the assessment to be delayed until a recording device is working. This request is agreed on some occasions.

Of course, there are potential pitfalls, but the situation improved greatly, after Harrington, and as every assessment is now being audited, by government, to avoid so many appeals, they are much more cautious about what they put on the form..

It is also the case that ATOS can and will stop the examination if they find a claimant to be recording, possibly resulting in the claim being suspended or closed.

Any claimant recording cannot be used at an appeal tribunal anyway.

The appeals success rate is fairly low, but bear in mind an awful lot of original rejections/WRAG placements subject to MR's and appeals are overturned by the DWP before they even get to a tribunal. So, the overall success rate of disputing a decision is about what it always was with IB.

Lin

sniggings

Morglin wrote: »

I did read the thread, but if you read the regulations, he can formally request the assessment to be delayed until a recording device is working. This request is agreed on some occasions.

Of course, there are potential pitfalls, but the situation improved greatly, after Harrington, and as every assessment is now being audited, by government, to avoid so many appeals, they are much more cautious about what they put on the form..

It is also the case that ATOS can and will stop the examination if they find a claimant to be recording, possibly resulting in the claim being suspended or closed.

Any claimant recording cannot be used at an appeal tribunal anyway.

The appeals success rate is fairly low, but bear in mind an awful lot of original rejections/WRAG placements subject to MR's and appeals are overturned by the DWP before they even get to a tribunal. So, the overall success rate of disputing a decision is about what it always was with IB.

Lin

recording may not be able to be used for the appeal but they can be used by the claimant to base his or her appeal on, in so much as they can use it to form a factual record of what was said, then if Atos lie then you could look into sueing them etc the recording is just a safe guard, yes they will not be abled to be submitted to the hearing but they can be used many other ways, I'm sure some MPs would be happy to listen to atos telling a pack of lying to a hearing and they can then act.

the figures can show whatever each side what them to show, the facts are, over 800.000 people waiting for an appeal and the ESA claimants for 2008 is near enough exactly the same today, yet if we are to beleive the government, over a thrid have been found fit for work, so surely the ESA claimant count would be a lot lower today but it's not, what is happening, a lot are winning the appeals, the government are assessing the same people more than once, as they rejoin the queue, some going to JSA then being sent back and others just waiting out the 6 months and making a fresh claim, the money being spent on this is shocking for the results the government are getting.

Morglin

As far as I know it is actually against the law to covertly record someone without their permission, without certain legal procedures being followed, so if that is still the case, then although the claimant could use it to recap, it would be no use in any sort of legal situation, or where an MP is involved.

Yes, the assessments are rolling, and the appeals have stacked up, which is why ATOS assessments are being audited, which is a protection in itself.

Personally, in the a sense of being able to record, I would take someone with me, to openly take notes etc., as ATOS cannot prevent that.

But, as I say, the use of covert recording will be very limited, unless the law has recently changed.

Recording is like CCTV - where the camera has to either be openly visible, or signs given that recording is going on.

As for huge screaming DM headlines, via government, about x amount being fit for work, they generally put WRAG decisions into those figures, as being fit for work, when they are not,which gives a false picture, but keeps some people happy.

I agree with you that too many people are being bounced between JSA and ESA though.

Lin

sniggings

Morglin wrote: »

As far as I know it is actually against the law to covertly record someone without their permission, without certain legal procedures being followed, so if that is still the case, then although the claimant could use it to recap, it would be no use in any sort of legal situation, or where an MP is involved.

Yes, the assessments are rolling, and the appeals have stacked up, which is why ATOS assessments are being audited, which is a protection in itself.

Personally, in the a sense of being able to record, I would take someone with me, to openly take notes etc., as ATOS cannot prevent that.

But, as I say, the use of covert recording will be very limited, unless the law has recently changed.

Recording is like CCTV - where the camera has to either be openly visible, or signs given that recording is going on.

Lin

no it's not, as long as one of the party know the recording is taking place, if that were the case all these tories that get caught taking payments for lobbing etc would never make it to the papers.

we are talking voice recordings here, no law on them, as said as long as one of the party know about it, video may be a different matter but as said the papers seems to use them without fear of being sued for making a secret recoding or being jailed, so I even doubt it's a problem filming it secrectly if you wished.

Morglin

You could be right, but tribunals say they will not/cannot use them because of the legality of them, so I would advise any claimant to get some professional advice about it first.

Unless they just want to use them to recap, of course.

Newspapers and the media have an army of legal bods to advise them - the average ESA claimant hasn't.

Lin

sniggings

Morglin wrote: »

You could be right, but tribunals say they will not/cannot use them because of the legality of them, so I would advise any claimant to get some professional advice about it first.

Unless they just want to use them to recap, of course.

Newspapers and the media have an army of legal bods to advise them - the average ESA claimant hasn't.

Lin

So have the police, if it was illegal surely the police when step in.

as said a recording can be used in many ways apart from at tribunals.

sunnyone

Morglin wrote: »

It isn't always a problem, as I was accepted into SG, for 3 years, from ICB, with no physical examination, no other info required, other than that I had sent, and heard from them 3 weeks after they got the form.

Many others have had the same positive experience, so just fill the form out, as advised, and see how it goes.

Same here, straight transfer to SG for the maximum three years based on my ESA50 and supporting evidence alone which was sent alongside the form.

Mine was a bit quicker though, it took about a fortnight.

When you are severely disabled or very sick and you can prove it with good quailty evidence from the medical team treating you you have nothing to fear with ESA.

sniggings

sunnyone wrote: »

Same here, straight transfer to SG for the maximum three years based on my ESA50 and supporting evidence alone which was sent alongside the form.

Mine was a bit quicker though, it took about a fortnight.

When you are severely disabled or very sick and you can prove it with good quailty evidence from the medical team treating you you have nothing to fear with ESA.

again that is not the case with all claimants, you just have to look on here and in the papers.

Very sick and disabled people failing the assessment and then winning on appeal.

System

Had 3 assessments and each time was placed in support group.

Fi in the esa50 with as much information as you can and include supporting evidence from professionals, take someone with you (for moral support if nothing else-it was somewhat upsetting to recount in detail suicide attempts and incidents of self harm), and be honest about how your illness/condition affects you. It can go wrong, I have a friend who had to appeal and go to tribunal despite having similar health problems (and the same psychiatrist) so be prepared but for a fair few people the assessment is accurate and no problem you just don't hear about good stories. People are always more likely to report bad news than good.

Poppie68

Mine was text book...13 weeks on assesment rate, paperwork recieved to inform me i had been put straight into the SG without a medical next payment was correct SG amount.
It's a shame people don't come on here with their positive experiences to let new claimants know it's not always a nightmare. I know before i recieved my decision i felt dread after reading all the negative experiences.