Elderly ex-pat nightmare,,any advice?

mcdunstan

Father-in-law can speak Spanish but mother-in-law is drugged up to the eyeballs, barely speaks coherent English can't speak Spanish much & certainly wouldn't understand Spanish nurses speaking at a hundred miles an hour when all she wants to do is kill herself..

wildwestfan

mcdunstan wrote: »

They have about £3k in the bank. Could they get an old people's flat near us on housing benefit??

They would need to pass the Habitual Residency Test and they obviously would be returning simply to claim benefits. Difficult one. Perhaps you could sort out a flat for them to come back to and they could live off the £3K while everything else is sorted. Do they claim UK pensions?

Why not just go over and get them?

nannytone_2

i dont understand why its costing you 1.5k a week now. oerhaps you could give a breakdown of your expenditure.

even if they cant get any benefits here, btinging them back would surely be cheaper?
a 1 bed flat would be £400 a week max, even in the most expensive area. living costs £200 a week, the brother could move into the flat and cost another £200 a week
rgRA kready £700 a week less

mcdunstan

Costs at present per month:
Health insurance for both parents: £2400 per month
Carers: £2000 per month
Brother's rent: £1000 (they live in the most expensive area of Spain in Puerto Banus & has always wanted to be near parents but not with them)
Brother's living allowance: £1000 a month
Basically, we give them £7000 a month to cover their lives.

If they stay in Spain they could get free healthcare but it is difficult because of reasons I said before. Families are expected to do the nursing care & we're not there & they are always in and our of hospital...hence expensive Bupa costs.

They could get free carers but you have to apply & it's complicated & it's not our language. Plus the carers might not be as sympathetic to my m-in-law as the ones she has now. They are English & can cope with her accusations, violent outburst etc. Would a minimum wage Spanish carer be able to cope as well??

If we cut those costs we would just pay about £2k - £2.5k a month. But still a huge commitment.

If they come here we have a holiday rental flat they could live in but it has stairs up to it so Mother would be housebound, but it would cost us about £600 a month for them to live there. We could get carers for £300 a week & we can help because we are near them. Brother would have no rent in Spain as he would live in there flat, so just his living expenses. So cost would be about £3k a month.

If they came to the UK & got carers allowance that would mean approx £1.6k a month to cover rent here & brother's living costs in Spain.

If they got housing benefit & got a sheltered accommodation flat & carers allowance it would be just £1k to cover brother's living costs.

Brother who is 50, is settled in Spain, registered as schizophrenic, can't work, never worked & to move him would be dreadful for him as he has a girlfriend of 10 years who is Spanish. (She is older, doesn't work, just sells Aloe Gel stuff for pocket money..Job market is very bad there anyway)

With an asset, (their flat in Spain) worth £200k but unsellable in Spanish market..it's not in good condition either..even the refurbed ones don't sell...
Would this asset be taken into account for carers allowance and housing benefit in the UK bearing in mind they have a dependent in Spain who needs to live in their flat?? They have been paying for the son from the age of 18. The Father has agreed to put the flat in our name so that there is no way the brother can be taken advantage of by the Spanish girlfriend after the parents have died. If it's in joint names with the brothers & the brother marries the girlfriend which is possible...we could face a problem. If it's in our name we know he always has somewhere to live & not a bedsit or B&B on housing benefit in the UK which he would make him ill again.

They obviously paid NI contributions in UK for years, have a UK pension. Brother can't get disability allowance in Spain from Spanish as far as I'm aware.

jackyann

I really think you need specialist advice on this one, in many areas.
I would begin with AgeUK who understand a lot of these issues and have information about benefit entitlements, including for people living abroad. Thy offer some advice for free, and as this is complicated, they may suggest one of the IFAs associated with them, who would of course charge. I think it may be worthwhile, as there are special considerations here, from both the financial & care point of view.
It may be worth contacting your local European MP as they have knowledge about the differing systems and entitlements, and can at least point you in the right direction, if not actually help.
I too, can't help feeling that you are being taken advantage of. This is probably not meant to be manipulative or greedy, but that your in-laws are doing things they way they understand and can cope with.

Thy are lucky to have you, both financially and trying to do your best for them, but I think you have to set up what you can and draw some boundaries.

Caz3121

It does sound like a complex situation and I think they will find it difficult to receive any means tested in the UK even if they can pass the Habitual Residence Test.
The apartment in Spain will be counted as capital and if they transfer it into your name then that could be classed as deprivation of capital (as they would in theory be giving away £200k)
I agree with others that you need some specialist help with this

mcdunstan

Thanks ever so much for taking the tine to give advice. I will contact AgeUK. It's so complicated I think we need specialist help.
It's not really a question of setting boundaries. My f-in-law is in tears all the time. They don't want to be a burden, it's just the way it is. We need to find a cheaper way or a way of making more money.
I just wish my life was normal..I have two young kids, a business I've worked bloody hard to build & a mother with Alzheimer's...this as well is just ridiculous. Everyone else I know is just living a normal life and getting on with their own thing. Never mind. Thanks for taking the time to help. I'll leave it there. x

jacques_chirac

Everything will sell at the right price. Even if you get £100K for the apartment, that will be enough to see them through the rest of their years comfortably. Then you can find somewhere cheaper for brother to live - he doesn't have to be in the expensive area if his parents are in the UK.

FBaby

I think everyone involve are going to have to have a reality check. It sounds like your parents in law have been expecting and enjoying a comfortable life without showing any concern for the future. That's a choice, but the reality is that if they suddenly find themselves in need of benefits, they will have to accept that their lifestyle is just not going to remain as it is. They will have to accept things that they/you won't be happy with, but that is the consequences of not having planned the future appropriately.

The reality is that they can either stay in Spain and accept what the same welfare that Spaniards are entitled to when they can't affod things for themselves, or you will have to accept to continue to support them, if not to the current level, to a certain standard.

Or they come back and either you accept that you have to continue to support them, but maybe in a cheaper and easier way than if they were in Spain (maybe you could extend your house with the proceeds of the sale of the house), or their standard of living will have to go down. Wishing for a 3 bed house in a nice area and being entitled to one is two different things.

As for the brother the same thing apply. He is currently stable, he has a partner to support him, surely they shouldn't expect you to sustain their lifestyle forever.

Expecting your in laws to come back to England and be fully supported by tax payers to enjoy a large comfortable house whilst the brother gets to live rent free in their home is just not the way to go. There are many rules that disallow such arrangements.

You and your husband first step should be to assess what his parents and brother would be entitled to in benefits in either country, and then go from there as to whether you accept what they are entitled to, or decide it is not good enough and support them yourself.

elsien

Why are you paying brothers £1000 living costs? How are these broken down? Is he living beyond his means because you don't want to rock the boat?
He may be happy and settled, and I can see why you'd want him to stay where he can remain well, but if you can't afford it he needs to make some cuts as well, such as moving somewhere cheaper. Having mental health problems does not absolve him of all responsibility for himself.