Benefits Street

Furts

zarf2007 wrote: »

However, the SME sized companies in this country encourage eastern european workers because they can pay below minimum wage which noone unless they share 14 to a house could afford to live off......everytime I hear the old argument of 'we need these workers for the economy' the reality is they create these slave labour type jobs to make themselves more wealthy.....

I will add a recent experience, which is not in the prosperous south east or London.

I was working on a small construction site in a city centre. There were a number of labourers. A couple were Romanian and a couple were UK teenagers. The developer despaired with the latter - they was no work ethic but he wanted local labour . He went through numerous replacement teenagers then sacked the last one on Friday. On Monday morning at 7.20 a Romanian car pulled up beside me in the car park. He had just driven to work, from Romania, and arrived ten minutes early for the 7.30 start.

Later that week I asked about his progress. He had gone elsewhere. It was explained that he had been offered a better paid job within days. He could not be expected to work for the rates of pay being offered. He had given notice to the devoper, apologised for any inconvience caused, and phoned Romania. A replacement got in his car and drove to the site.

Of course rates of pay are relevant. This was eight hours a day for a six day week - the Romanians wanted to work Saturdays. There was some evening overtime, but this was not guaranteed. Equally there was no overtime premium. The deal was £10 an hour for a 48 hour week. Show willing and it might gross at £580 per week.

The Romanian had been offered £12 per hour within two days of his arrival - word had gone round that here was someone who wanted to work. When there is a demand, but no supply, the price goes up...

I do not consider this exploitation, but residents of that city will not work for these terms.

zarf2007

Furts wrote: »

I will add a recent experience, which is not in the prosperous south east or London.

I was working on a small construction site in a city centre. There were a number of labourers. A couple were Romanian and a couple were UK teenagers. The developer despaired with the latter - they was no work ethic but he wanted local labour . He went through numerous replacement teenagers then sacked the last one on Friday. On Monday morning at 7.20 a Romanian car pulled up beside me in the car park. He had just driven to work, from Romania, and arrived ten minutes early for the 7.30 start.

Later that week I asked about his progress. He had gone elsewhere. It was explained that he had been offered a better paid job within days. He could not be expected to work for the rates of pay being offered. He had given notice to the devoper, apologised for any inconvience caused, and phoned Romania. A replacement got in his car and drove to the site.

Of course rates of pay are relevant. This was eight hours a day for a six day week - the Romanians wanted to work Saturdays. There was some evening overtime, but this was not guaranteed. Equally there was no overtime premium. The deal was £10 an hour for a 48 hour week. Show willing and it might gross at £580 per week.

The Romanian had been offered £12 per hour within two days of his arrival - word had gone round that here was someone who wanted to work. When there is a demand, but no supply, the price goes up...

I do not consider this exploitation, but residents of that city will not work for these terms.

While I don't doubt that a lot of romanian's are hard working and there are a lot of work shy brits (who in my opinion should either be forced to do this work or they get no benefits), can the same be said of the 'car washer' who arrived and had a coffee with keith vaz? are you telling me that a student would not do that job? or that this is an 'essential' position that only a skilled person from outside the UK can do?

also is the eastern european likely to earn anywhere near enough to pay income tax washing cars? and then theres the fact that most of his money will be sent home to his family, leaving a pittance that goes back into the economy from his living expenses.....

now take away the cost of his NHS treatment (dental and health) and then factor in when he brings his family over...(schools/local facilities etc) and you will find they take far more out of this country than they would ever contribute...I bet the building work was off the books cash in hand as well.

in London and the South east, all of the bar/restaurant/cleaning jobs are filled with eastern europeans....these would traditionally be done by students to help fund their studies.....these jobs were also done by aussies, south africans and new zealanders, who are now in white collar jobs....it wont be long before the eastern europeans want to move up the chain as well...

in the meantime how many of us are likely to migrate to eastern europe?

silvercar

also is the eastern european likely to earn anywhere near enough to pay income tax washing cars? and then theres the fact that most of his money will be sent home to his family, leaving a pittance that goes back into the economy from his living expenses.....

now take away the cost of his NHS treatment (dental and health) and then factor in when he brings his family over...(schools/local facilities etc) and you will find they take far more out of this country than they would ever contribute..

So is he sending money home to his family or are his family over here?

He is also here to work, so is most likely not to be a great burden on our health system. Until your typical benefits street britain who will be wasting NHS resources in picking up essential sick notes and no doubt need the intervention of social services and in later life the results of excess smoking and drinking and unhealthy living.

.I bet the building work was off the books cash in hand as well.

Unlike the thieving and cash in hand work done by those on benefit street??

zarf2007

silvercar wrote: »

So is he sending money home to his family or are his family over here?

He is also here to work, so is most likely not to be a great burden on our health system. Until your typical benefits street britain who will be wasting NHS resources in picking up essential sick notes and no doubt need the intervention of social services and in later life the results of excess smoking and drinking and unhealthy living.



Unlike the thieving and cash in hand work done by those on benefit street??

he is likely to be sending money back initially and then moving his family over...just because he is working does not mean he does not need dental/medical treatment....

also you seem to forget....if the plan is to deny benefits to all but the truly needy then what jobs do you expect the benefit dodgers to do if they are all taken by eastern european workers......

again, ask yourself why people from the UK arent in a rush to work in romania, if it were a country of equal wealth there would be no problem...

Furts

zarf2007 wrote: »

..I bet the building work was off the books cash in hand as well.

...

The work was PAYE with tax and National Insurance being paid by the employee.

My intuition is the local residents look at the Nett Wage and decide not to apply for the work.

silvercar

he is likely to be sending money back initially and then moving his family over...just because he is working does not mean he does not need dental/medical treatment....

Who is likely to need more public resources - education, health & social services etc A guy that comes from Romania and works in a physical job, so gets lots of exercise or a benefits family who spend their benefits on fags and drink, who have health issues, more kids than they can afford, are a constant drain on public finances.

also you seem to forget....if the plan is to deny benefits to all but the truly needy then what jobs do you expect the benefit dodgers to do if they are all taken by eastern european workers......

They don't want to work! If they did they would have taken the jobs before the Romanians arrived.

again, ask yourself why people from the UK arent in a rush to work in romania, if it were a country of equal wealth there would be no problem...

Cos we are lazy gits who don't speak the language.

Angelicdevil

Twisted_Cherry wrote: »

Mark and Becky - a prime example as why some people should not have / deserve children.

I really feel for their children. No routine, no structure. Undoubtedly, without intervention, these children will grow up to have a life no better than their parents.

Truly sad. I wanted to step into the telly and put them to bed. What kind of parent doesn't even have a bedtime routine?! No wonder the eldest boy didn't want to go to playschool in the morning after only 3 hours sleep

Harking back to the advent of benefits in this country, there were assistants on hand to help and educate mothers such as Becky, and non compliance resulted in benefits being removed and children put in care. I think this should be brought back in. Carrot, as oppose to stick and will truly benefit the family as a whole if they partake and learn.

zarf2007

silvercar wrote: »

Who is likely to need more public resources - education, health & social services etc A guy that comes from Romania and works in a physical job, so gets lots of exercise or a benefits family who spend their benefits on fags and drink, who have health issues, more kids than they can afford, are a constant drain on public finances.



They don't want to work! If they did they would have taken the jobs before the Romanians arrived.



Cos we are lazy gits who don't speak the language.

of course they wont work if 'asked' to, thats why a government that would say 'either work or starve' would motivate them....

unfortunately the last labour government (which I voted for) seriously screwed up on benefits and immigration and I cant see an easy way to fix it...

gadgetmind

I read an interesting quote in a letter in a (lay) science journal recently.

"Excessive welfare states in Australia, the UK, and elsewhere make people dependant on them, which can lead to a loss of confidence, independence, skills and motivation."

Benefits damage people and the whole system needs serious reform.

silvercar

gadgetmind wrote: »

I read an interesting quote in a letter in a (lay) science journal recently.

"Excessive welfare states in Australia, the UK, and elsewhere make people dependant on them, which can lead to a loss of confidence, independence, skills and motivation."

Benefits damage people and the whole system needs serious reform.

Removing the dependence doesn't make people independent.

Old lady walks with zimmer frame, remove the frame and she falls over .