Would you tell a child that NRP does not pay for them?

FBaby

Dunroamin wrote: »

With all due respect - how do you know what they tell their friends?

I trust that they now understand about privacy since we had in depth discussions about it. Frankly it doesn't matter much anyway. There are things they could reveal that would be much more embarassing than them telling their friends that our mortgage will be paid in 4 years, and I'm sure that would be of much more interest to their friends!

mumps

duchy wrote: »

So you assume that most families in poverty can be directly attributed to drinking, gambling or drug taking-Good grief what planet do you live on ??????

As for my parents- and what they said - despite being poor they were always entirely respectful of each other and worked as a team -a concept you appear to be unfamiliar with within marriage.

What your friend told you she did and and how you interpret it and what you think about it has no relevence to the topic in hand-yet another entirely unrelated situation.

Enjoy your break watch out for those drinking, gambling , drug taking families crawling in poverty on your travels and try not to trip over too many assumed DM stereotypes as you go !!

Wow, over reaction and misunderstanding in one. I did not say all or even most families in poverty was due to drink, drugs or gambling, I said it often is and I stand by that. I grew in a family affected by alcohol so I know about it.

The point I was making about your family was that your parents obvious weren't blaming each other, which makes a big difference to the children. When people are divorced they often do make negative attributions to the other parent but that isn't about respect in marriage as they aren't married any more.

The effect my friend had on her children is related, her kids dad did drugs and drake and was short of money due to that so he couldn't support the kids. In the interests of honesty she made sure the kids knew that and they suffered. Not an opinion a fact.

My weekend is going well thanks.

mumps

supersaver2 wrote: »

You're are not the only one, as somebody said earlier in this thread that they knew about their Grandparents incomes! I find that quite bizarre and if it is the case that the 12 year has been discussing maintenance with their friends what's to stop them discussing household incomes/Grandparents incomes etc with friends.

Children can learn about budgeting with out knowing household incomes, we had this strange concept of being given pocket money which had to last and getting part time jobs, we were certainly not told how much our parents earned.

I agree, my children learned about budgeting by managing their money, not mine. From 11, when they started senior school, they had a set amount each month, it covered bus fares, lunches, a bit of money for fun and clothes. They could juggle the money e.g. one might make a sandwich and flask to take to school and save their lunch money towards a new outfit of DVD, one might grab and apple and then buy a lunch but no pud, sometimes they might walk or cycle, quite a long walk but if they wanted the new outfit enough they did it. I don't discuss my salary with them now as adults.

GobbledyGook

mumps wrote: »

Wow, over reaction and misunderstanding in one. I did not say all or even most families in poverty was due to drink, drugs or gambling, I said it often is and I stand by that. I grew in a family affected by alcohol so I know about it.

The point I was making about your family was that your parents obvious weren't blaming each other, which makes a big difference to the children. When people are divorced they often do make negative attributions to the other parent but that isn't about respect in marriage as they aren't married any more.

The effect my friend had on her children is related, her kids dad did drugs and drake and was short of money due to that so he couldn't support the kids. In the interests of honesty she made sure the kids knew that and they suffered. Not an opinion a fact.

My weekend is going well thanks.

Being honest about doesn't necessarily mean blaming and it doesn't always lead to suffering.

I was always very aware of the fact that our issues were all due to my parents drug taking. It was all very factual from my grandparents about how they hadn't expected to be feeding/clothing four people. We knew they had X coming into the house and Y going out and that meant we had to be careful.

Children often know something is going on. At 12 I'd have been very aware if my Grandparents suddenly started working loads more hours and yet we seemed poorer. Being honest can be reassuring and if a ood bit of thought is put into it then it can be done without sounding nasty or harsh and can be done without making the child suffer.

mumps

GobbledyGook wrote: »

Being honest about doesn't necessarily mean blaming and it doesn't always lead to suffering.

I was always very aware of the fact that our issues were all due to my parents drug taking. It was all very factual from my grandparents about how they hadn't expected to be feeding/clothing four people. We knew they had X coming into the house and Y going out and that meant we had to be careful.

Children often know something is going on. At 12 I'd have been very aware if my Grandparents suddenly started working loads more hours and yet we seemed poorer. Being honest can be reassuring and if a ood bit of thought is put into it then it can be done without sounding nasty or harsh and can be done without making the child suffer.

I agree it doesn't always mean blaming but it can and I think that is when it is damaging, or can be damaging. The friend I referred to justified the information about her husband by saying she was being honest with her children and that was true but she didn't just say, "dad can't afford to give me anything." She would say, "dad can't give me anything because he prefers his cannabis, alcohol, fags, whatever." It was said in a negative way.

I think if separated parents are going to say something about the other parent they need to think about the message the child will get, it is very different to a happily married couple saying something. My father died due to alcohol but I think we were all relatively unscathed because of my mother being incredibly positive about him. Obviously we were sad, any child would be, but it would have been so easy for us to get the message that he chose booze not us, I don't think you would even need to have been negative about it, just being neutral would have been hard.

I just think that people saying be honest, if it has a negative outcome that is his fault aren't going to be the ones picking up the pieces if the children are hurt by it.

It must have been hard for you and your grandparents, I don't really have any experience of children being brought up by grandparents so not sure how that would work. I agree that children do know something is going on and I suppose alot of it would depend on how much children knew, I mean if you have been exposed to your parents problems it would be pointless grandparents trying to pretend nothing was going on.

Dasa

Errata wrote: »

So what happens should mum lose her job or is on long term sick?

Eh? What has that got to do with it? Some people are making out the kids are suffering financially now not some hypothetical what happens if etc etc etc. The OP has said the kids don't suffer.

As usual posters putting their own spin on things.

LydiaJ

DUTR wrote: »

Why I find it odd is that there even needs to be any explanation to any child, clothes allowance pocket money or anything else is a privilage not a right, and sorry it is not to troll but trying to blame the other parent is just the cowards way of avoiding saying NO, you cannot have everything you want all of the time, or even some of the time is not possible....
Just like many of you here once a child and asking for something perhaps that was expensive, the answer returned was NO, there didn't need to be any explanation from any parent for them to have to justify their answer NO.

I think it is helpful for a 12 year old to have an explanation of a decrease in standard of living. The mum is working much longer hours and yet there isn't a corresponding increase in the family's disposable income.

I've been through all sorts of ups and downs with my kids, and no, of course I haven't given them detailed information about my finances. I have, however, always given them a basic and age-appropriate explanation any time we've needed to cut back financially.

silvercar wrote: »

I disagree, the main point is that the child wants a clothes allowance. There is a secondary point that the child thinks she has some entitlement to the maintenance provided by the Dad. we know there isn't any at the moment, but if there was, it is not for the child to think they have an entitlement to it at the age of 12. Maintenance goes tot he pwc to provide for the child, not to the child.

Indeed. And if the mother was receiving maintenance but couldn't afford to give the child a clothes allowance for it, I would be all for the mother saying "Yes, we do get maintenance from your dad, but I need that to pay for xyz." My kids know that I receive pensions from their late father's pension schemes - not just a widow's pension for myself, but survivors' pensions for the kids too. When they first found out about this, they were inclined to think they should get "their" pension money. I have had to explain to them that I spend that money on supporting them - food, clothes, petrol for driving them places, childcare - and on owning and running a home that is big enough for them to live in as well as me.

However, the OP's friend can't truthfully tell the child what she spends "the maintenance" on, so I agree with so many other people who've said that she should be very factual about explaining that now dad is not earning, he's no longer paying maintenance as he used to, and that that is why mum is working extra hours.

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

How does the child even know about maintenance though? I'm wondering if the mum has mentioned hoping for some, or the dad has implied/stated that he's paying it? It's an odd thing for a 12 year old (?) child to know about.

I've asked my kids (13 & 10) if they know what "maintenance" means. They didn't. I asked if they knew that NRPs usually pay money to PWCs to support their kids. They didn't. Then I asked them if they knew that their dad used to pay our rent when he and I were separated, and they both knew that. (Our agreement was that he would do that instead of paying maintenance, although that would have changed if we'd got divorced.) He died 4 years ago, so they must have known he was paying our rent at least by the time they were 9 & 6, if not before then. Presumably they haven't thought about it since then, otherwise I expect it might have occurred to them that other families would also have financial arrangements for the support of the children.

FBaby

The effect my friend had on her children is related, her kids dad did drugs and drake and was short of money due to that so he couldn't support the kids. In the interests of honesty she made sure the kids knew that and they suffered. Not an opinion a fact.

But how do you know that it was their mum honesty that made the childre suffer rather than the pure fact that their dad was a waste of time?

I agree, my children learned about budgeting by managing their money, not mine.

Money management is not just about budgeting. There is a lot more to it. I want my kids to know about the notion of credit, interest rates, the role of banking, insurance etc... all things that are beyong managing pocket money.

My son said something to me about his dad two days ago that really surprised me by the maturity of his words. It wasn't something I had ever said to him, or anyone from my family, and clearly not something his dad had said. It was him putting two and two together and being able to draw conclusions on his own. Many children are much more emotionally mature than we give them credit for.

Pollycat

FBaby wrote: »

Money management is not just about budgeting. There is a lot more to it. I want my kids to know about the notion of credit, interest rates, the role of banking, insurance etc... all things that are beyong managing pocket money.

This sounds great. :T

And hopefully and as a result of your education to them now, when your kids are adults, they'll not be posting on the MSE DFW board.

Mojisola

FBaby wrote: »

Money management is not just about budgeting. There is a lot more to it. I want my kids to know about the notion of credit, interest rates, the role of banking, insurance etc... all things that are beyong managing pocket money.

I agree - and this is why Martin has pushed to get financial education in schools.

Learning how to manage your own pocket money doesn't help you manage household spending. There are regular posts on MSE from young adults who are moving out of the family home and who don't have a clue how much they need to budget for utilities, food and other basic costs. It's a parents' job to prepare their offspring for adult life - managing a household is an essential part of that.

Of course it has to be age-appropriate but "protecting" teenagers from understanding household costs isn't a good thing.