Learning to think like a frugal person

ForMyGirls

Hello coaches,

It is so great to have extra brains helping me think through these challenges!

Iammumtoone I love your suggestion of contemplating buying a set of cheap and ugly containers to test whether the impulse to buy containers is really about NEEDING containers. Beck talks, in the money domain, about a way for identifying whether a desire to eat is hunger or craving is to reality test by asking whether you are desperate to eat a slice of wholemeal bread, or a carrot - or whether it is only the chocolate icecream that is calling your name. I think your process is the same tool for reality testing a motivation to spend.

Chanie - you are so right that having a budget for some impulse purchases is important or else it becomes too hard and unsustainable. I do have a "play money" budget. It has to buy quite a lot of things - including clothes - so there is not a lot to go around - but it does mean that when faced with those containers it isn't a case of "can't have it" but more a case of "do you want this more or less than that new bra?" I am realising as I move through this that somewhere in my life I lost sight of the fact that every expenditure is a choice between acquiring that thing and acquiring another. Getting that basic concept imbedded in my brain will help a lot I think.

Lots of credits for my day today:
1. went on a lovely bike ride this morning and instead of stopping at a cafe to buy a coffee we took a thermos and some fruit for snacks. Sat in the sculpture garden at the gallery (which was on route) - even nicer than a cafe (though the tea was luke warm - must remember that 'heat the thermos before you fill it' trick for next time).
2. Used up leftover rice to make fried rice for lunch.
3. Gave all the vegie scraps to the chickens (not strictly money saving - but I am usually very slack about using compost / saving the scraps for the chooks - so nice to see that thinkgin about how I use stuff is inadvertently having a positive impact on other parts of life too).

Had another chance to observe my spending motivations today. My kids are away with their Dad at the moment - it is a longer stint than normal and the younger one is struggling a bit with the separation. She was texting me a bit today when I remembered this great app I came across a few weeks ago - it allows two people who are in different places to draw or colour a picture in together (over the internet). I thought about buying it (and gifting it for her so that she could get it on her end too). I entered it into the budget system first (as per my day 3 rule) and satisfied myself that there was money in the "kids' expenses" category to cover it, and that it wouldn't take the balance so low that other more important things would need to be sacrificed.

Then I stopped and thought about why I was buying it. Quickly identified that it wasn't need. Decided there was possibly an element of "shiny new thing that is different from something I already have". Decided there was also possibly a "meeting an emotional need" dimension - I have been feeling sad about knowing that she is missing me and that I can't fix that for her - so it might be that the impulse to buy the app was motivated by the desire to stop feeling that. Then I thought about the fact that this might be something that would make it a little easier for her to stay feeling connected while she is away and decided that the expense (pretty minor - $6 in total) was worth it.

Jury in my head is still out as to whether this was the "right" decision - but I am pleased that I stopped to a) make sure I could afford it and b) thought through the motivations for buying it - at least I didn't buy it thinking I NEEDed to buy it.

There is a bunch of muddy thinking going on about when it is OK to spend money on something that isn't a NEED. I think probably the answer is that it is about moderation - again, so like food - it is OK to have some food (like chocolate) that has limited nutritional content - it just needs to be occassionally. And back in the money world I think it also comes back to that point that frugalfilly raised about 'cost per use' - when deciding whether to spend money on something that isn't a need I can make that decision by balancing up cost and benefit (and of course considering whether there is money in the budget!)

One more spending motivation observation to go and then I will move on to Day 12.

chanie

I totally agree about spending being about choices e.g. if I buy xxx I won't be able to do yyy. That's why I really want to treat the children this month, as we didn't get them much for Xmas (our choice, we only bought stuff we thought they would look and despite looking, there wasn't much!!!). I've now seen a couple of bits they would like and I'm determined to include it in my guilt free spend.

I think that children do cause us the most amount of guilt, which can lead to spending. I feel guilty that I work full time, which could be part of the reason why I feel I 'have' to take them out when I have a day off. Credit for today is that I didn't go out so didn't spend any money. I actually do need to get some household stuff, but I can do that tomorrow. I think your picture app sounds like a lovely idea and I can see why you got it. But, at least you thought about it first.

Day 7 - not giving in to temptation
I know the theory is about not having sweet treats in the house, so I've adapted this to not giving in to temptation, as my home environment isn't the problem. I know some people say 'leave your purse at home when you go to work' this brings meme out in a cold sweat as I work in Central London so have to commute. As I said before, I will use cash for these purchases and once the money is gone, that's it.

Day 8 - energy and running it like a business
For the past few years, I have kept a little notebook which I use to manage certain things like to do lists, birthday presents, shopping lists, present ideas etc. I love looking over it - for example, I wrote down all of the childrens Xmas presents and made a note of how much money we'd saved through using offers and discounts. It does give me a sense of pride. I plan to use it much more this year. I have added a page called 'places to go' - these are free or cheap local places to take the children if we want to get out.

Big_bog

My book has arrived but I couldn't help scan through it all tonight. I have identified that I am an inpatient so and so.....so I must go back and take each day slowly.

ForMyGirls

Chanie - you are so right about mother guilt. The ultimate sabotaging thought! Your plan to limit your treat spending money by having cash sounds like a great plan.

Big bog - LOL on the impatient so and so :-) and i think you are spot on to take it slowly a day at a time. I think it really helps to imbed each new habit properly so you really do change how you think.

Credits for yesterday- i got to spend a few hours with my kids yesterday which was lovely and kept having all these sabotaging thoughts about needing to spend money while we were together. Go out to lunch? Buy ice-creams? Do something to treat them in some way? I didn't do any of those things though which i am proud of. We had a very fun time together playing lots of games and my undivided attention was probably more of a treat for them than anything money can buy!

I didn't have think at the time to examine what the motivations were for my temptwtion to spend. Would have been better to do it at the time but still has value to do retrospectively i think. Clearly not need. Not want as there wasn't even a specific thing i wanted to do - more a generalised desire / impulse to spend money. So not a "new shiny thing" motivation. Probably about trying to fulfill an emotional need - with an element of habituation. Is it that at some level i see spending money as a way of demonstrating love??? Or is it more simply that i have gotten into of thinking that the only way to have fun is to spend money?

I also want to come back for a time delay refelction on my other two "spending motivation observations". I had quite forgotten about the storage containers. Apparently they do not actually matter at all! On reflection the drawing app was probably a waste of money. It might come to use later, but thus far it hasn't been used much. Instead we have been having far more fun writing a story together through text messages (using technology that was already in place and since it is i-gadget to i-gadget the texts are free).

This reflection reminds me of another credit. I have reecently done a big clean up of my study and set up a "kids corner" for me kids (principally to increase the chance of them not taking MY pens and notepads!) i didn't have a suitable container for all their drawing paper but instead came up with an option of moving some stuff out of a suitable container i already had into a cardboard box. Perfect solution, and free!

ForMyGirls

Day 12 (oops - heading says 11!) of Beck's book is about tolerating hunger. The task for the day is to prove to yourself that "hunger is not an emergency" and that you can survive being hungry. You fill out a "discomfort scale" identifying something that is not uncomfortable in anyway (0 on the scale) and something that is the most uncomfortable thing you have ever experienced (10 on the scale) plus a few other experiences along the way. Then you have a day where you skip lunch and each hour from lunch to dinner you stop and record where you are on the 'discomfort scale' - and what level of discomfort you have been experiencing in the last hour. I remember this being pretty daunting, but it was surprisingly easy. "Hunger is not an emergency" is a common catch cry nowadays!

In adapting this for the land of money I originally thought that the task could be to spend a few hours wandering around a shopping centre, with cash in my pocket! and monitoring how I feel. But then I thought that that is probably more about impulse spending - in fact that probably would have been a good activity for Day 11!

My next idea - which I think is a better one, (not least of all because it freaks me out to contemplate it) is to set myself the challenge of not spending any 'play money' for a week! (I am actually going to set it for 6 days because there are commitments I have already made to money spending activities next Friday!). So - from here till next Friday morning (it is Saturday morning here in Australia right now) I will spend none of my play money. Even though there is $54.91 there to be spent. I will fill in my discomfort scale now and then monitor my discomfort twice a day during these 6 days - maybe lunchtime and evening each day.

Day 12 checklist:
1. I read my ARC twice
2. I read other response cards (i.e.: ones I have created in response to sabotaging thoughts I have noticed) as necessary
3. I used my "stop impulse spending" and "savouring strategies - every time? most of the time? some of the time?
4. I used pause, plan, pay - every time? most of the time? some of the time?
5. I gave myself credit for helpful spending behaviours - every time? most of the time? some of the time?
6. I acted in accordance with my spending more wisely / living more cheaply plan - every time? most of the time? some of the time?
7. I planned a "no spend" period to practice leaving 'available' money to accumulate?

ForMyGirls

Credits for the day:
- packed a picnic lunch for a day out instead of getting something on the road:-)
- baked an extra loaf of bread for the freezer (have previously always had a shop bought loaf as "back up" for when i forget to bake but then read a thread elsewhere on MSE about how darn cheap homemade bread is!
- found a way to solve my "the mouse cord gets in the way" problem on my study desk without buying a cordless mouse. (The answer was use a different USB socket. So easy once i had decided there needed to be a solution that didn't involve spending money)

Day 1 of not spending any of my play money despite it being there to spend. My obsrvation at lunchtime was that at that point there was no discomfort but that there had been discomfort of up to a 4 during the morning when i got a bit panicked about how to manage a day out without spending money. Observation at dinner time was again that there was no discomfort at that point - and that there had been discomfort at a out the 1 or 2 level when driving past food places on the way home - though that discomfort was more about hunger than frugality.

iammumtoone

Hello everyone

I am getting ready to start on Monday :eek: I plan to sit down every night and enter everything in ynab even if I don't have any receipts to enter I will still look, just so I keep myself aware of how much money in each area I have to spend.

This week I would have gone way over budget in the entertainment pot, but it has been the school holidays so this has taught me I need to split the pot into two, one part for weekly spend, one part to save for the extra needed in the school holidays. I have also been thinking about what chanie said about 'guilt free spending money' I do have a pot for treats but this still involves thinking do I want to spend it on x or wait for y, so again I am going to split this amount into two, one for treats which involves evaluating if I want to spend it and one for 'guilt free money' what I can just spend without thinking like if I fancy a bar of chocolate etc. (apologises to those following the diet as well )

Credit for me - I brought some cheap double cream and made butter, this has taught me being frugal is not always cost effective as it broke my food mixer My first thought was I need to get a new one, then I thought it might just be the fuse I need to buy a fuse, then I realised I could just take a fuse out of something else to test it. Unfortunately it wasn't the fuse, but credit to me for checking this first. I am debating if I need another one, I do a fair bit of baking so think I would miss it. I have some amazon vouchers so will probably use those but will wait for a week or two to see how much I miss it first and if the cakes come out ok with hand mixing.

ForMyGirls

Hello coaches,

Yay to you Iammumtoone for thinking through how to set up your budget so that you have the freedoms you need! Good luck in the decision-making about the food mixer - and well done for thinking through ways that you might be able to fix it and whether the purchase is necessary.

Some credits for my day
1. we have a standing tradition of a fortnightly Sunday take-away meal - long story why but we are usually knackered on this Sunday in the fortnight. But we're on leave at the moment so no such knackeredness. Tempting to say "but it's our curry night" but we didn't. Yay us!
2. Went fruit and vegie shopping in the hour before closing at the markets when they start marking things down. Got a huge pile of strawberries which are on the stove right now being turned into jam. Yum! Gotta love holidays and time to live 'old style'.
3. Didn't buy a 'treat' at the markets even though calorie wise I had plenty of room for it as I spent most of the day spring cleaning the kitchen and got heaps of exercise in the process.

Observations on the "spend no money for 6 days front" - a bit of anxiety earlier in the day anticipating how to handle if my partner wanted to go ahead with curry night but as it turns out he didn't even suggest it! Nothing higher than a 3 or 4 on the discomfort scale. Maybe a 1 on the scale when decided that buying a treat at the markets was not an option. I have realised that there is a lunch out I am committed to on Thursday that I won't be able to get out of spending money at - which means it will be a 5 day "no spend". Bit bummed and have tried to think my way around it but it would create too much social awkwardness to change the plan or not pay my way! Oh well - the experiment will still have value if it is only 5 days. Kinda cool that I am bummed about having to spend money on a yummy lunch out!

chanie

Iammum - before you commit to buying a new mixer, ask friends and family if they have one they aren't using. I bet there are quite a few people who have them, that don't use them. Alternatively, google may come up with some fixes to your current one. I'm not saying you should mess with electrical products, but it may be a quick fix.

Fmg - enjoy your lunch on Thursday.

setback
I've had a bit of a setback with the plan. I've spent £10 on a few bits which I'm now thinking maybe I shouldnt have. On the one hand, it's only £10, but on the other hand, it's these small amounts that add up.

Below is my purchases and lessons learned:
Stocking filler for my daughter - I thought it was £3, but was £5 at the till. If I'd have known, I may not have bought it.
LESSON: if something is a limited offer, or in a shop I may struggle to return to, buy it. If it's a regular item, don't feel obliged to buy it.
Magazine - I was in Costco and bought a magazine as it was 20% off and I didn't know when I would get the chance to pop back. I've barely had the chance to read the previous edition.
LESSON: don't continue to buy because of habit. I've put the magazine in my bag, so I can read it on my work commute. If I don't enjoy reading it, I won't buy it again.

I then remembered that I had set aside a small amount of money for these spends (eg Xmas presents) but I still feel a bit naughty. This process for me is about sustainability and making smarter choices so I shouldn't feel bad about £10 if I am good for the rest of the month.


I've decided not to move onto the next step until I've got my head around this. I think a few stress free days should help - my plan is in place, so I should be okay and I'm back at work tomorrow so normal routine commences.

credits for chanie
Didn't spend any money today other than a birthday card for my mum.

Discovered Home Bargains today, which is a cheap shop. I need to go back and have a proper look at the prices. Picked up my mum's birthday card for 60p!!!!

Big_bog

Can anyone direct me on where to find ynab for the cheapest possible price please. £30 is the best I've seen so far. Thank you