school fines for out of term holidays?

Person_one

pinkshoes wrote: »

What I do object to are "chav" holidays, where a kid misses a whole week of school just to sit by a pool somewhere hot and not venture out of the tourist resort.

That's a bit snobby. Those are often exactly the kind of holidays that lower income families take in term time because that's what they can afford. Those holidays can be really enriching for children who don't have much at home.

nobodyspecial

FR_262 wrote: »

I did not make the wild assumption at all. Some parents genuinely don't realise the impact that taking their children out of school has.

And I am educated. To MA in Special Needs.

I also speak 4 languages (and the scripts), and have certs in bricklaying and plumbing. All have been useful in providing individual learning programmes for my pupils.

C&P from your original post
YES, YES, YES. Take your little precious darlings out of school! They're probably the little ba***rds that are disrupting the rest of the class.

Seems you did make that assumption, or are you saying the assumption wasn't wild? Given that you don't know any of the participants I would suggest it is an uninformed assumption.

Sorry I shouldn't have used the term uneducated, what I obviously needed was unintelligent. As somebody educated to such a very high standard you will of course appreciate the difference

Nicki

Person_one wrote: »

That's a bit snobby. Those are often exactly the kind of holidays that lower income families take in term time because that's what they can afford. Those holidays can be really enriching for children who don't have much at home.

I disagree with this I'm afraid. Enjoyable yes, but it is no more educationally enriching to play in a pool in a spanish resort for a week than it is to play in the pool at the local leisure centre for 5 days spread over 3 weekends.

If the holiday includes seeing local sights, learning about some of the local history or being exposed to a foreign language or trying local foods then I would agree that this is enriching but pinkshoes was quite specifically referring to a certain kind of holiday where none of those apply! Really what do children learn from spending a week by the pool in the sunshine during school term other than how to lie to their teachers when they get back about where they have been, or alternatively to disrespect them and announce that the law of the land doesn't apply to them because their mum and dad say the head teacher should get stuffed :cool:

Person_one

Children experience a different climate, they will probably make friends with other kids from all over the country and even other countries, they might learn a word or two in Spanish, it might be the first time they get to put their feet in the sea. Even the experience of going on a plane and seeing the clouds from above is an amazing experience for a child who has a very narrow life the rest of the year.

Nicki

Aside from the flight...

They are going during school term so most of the children they meet will be below school age. If the aim is to make new friends from different parts of the country far better to go during the school holidays when the childrens activities will be on and there is a decent chance of meeting children the same age as you.

We usually have warm and even hot weather for at least a few days every year in the UK too. We might not be able to guarantee when we have it but it definitely won't be the only time UK kids get to experience warm sun on their skins. Unless they live in Scotland or Northern Ireland

These kinds of resorts often only have people coming from one country (sometimes even only one holiday company depending on how big the hotel is) and Spanish (or any other language) isn't IME spoken by any of the staff to the guests as they are always all completely fluent in english (my eldest DS who is learning languages at school sometimes tries to practise when he is in a country that speaks that language (during school holiday time that is) and they never reciprocate in their own language)

fluffnutter

emmy05 wrote: »

there may be plenty of school holidays, but its hard to get the time off when you both work, summer holidays are full of everyone else wanting time off from work as well. and why should we be dictated to about when to take the kids on holiday when the holiday companies charge up to double the amount because of these insane rules for not missing school. swings and roundabouts, but its not as if youre getting anything more or different when you pay the high prices in school holidays either.

Accept that when you have kids you'll be going on holiday at the same time as everyone else? Pay more for the holidays? Don't have holidays? Don't have kids?

Honestly, I couldn't really care less whether people take their kids out of school or not - up to them innit and if they want a cheap fortnight in Marbella then they take the consequences. But don't whine about it. Surely none of this comes as a surprise?

Person_one

Nicki wrote: »

Aside from the flight...

They are going during school term so most of the children they meet will be below school age. If the aim is to make new friends from different parts of the country far better to go during the school holidays when the childrens activities will be on and there is a decent chance of meeting children the same age as you.

We usually have warm and even hot weather for at least a few days every year in the UK too. We might not be able to guarantee when we have it but it definitely won't be the only time UK kids get to experience warm sun on their skins. Unless they live in Scotland or Northern Ireland

These kinds of resorts often only have people coming from one country (sometimes even only one holiday company depending on how big the hotel is) and Spanish (or any other language) isn't IME spoken by any of the staff to the guests as they are always all completely fluent in english (my eldest DS who is learning languages at school sometimes tries to practise when he is in a country that speaks that language (during school holiday time that is) and they never reciprocate in their own language)

A different climate is so much more than a bit of sun! It's palm trees, it's the smell off the sea, it's little lizards scurrying about and visually stunning thunderstorms that you'd never see here.

Whatever you think of the parents, please don't underestimate the impact of a simple week in the sun on some of the least privileged children in our country.

duchy

Person_one wrote: »

Children experience a different climate, they will probably make friends with other kids from all over the country and even other countries, they might learn a word or two in Spanish, it might be the first time they get to put their feet in the sea. Even the experience of going on a plane and seeing the clouds from above is an amazing experience for a child who has a very narrow life the rest of the year.

Trouble is narrow parents raise narrow kids so these kinds of kids are more likely to be enriched by staying in school.

To suggest that a child has to travel abroad to paddle in the sea is laughable- we're an island nation. In the time it would take the majority of the population to travel to an airport they could travel to the coast, as for language-if the child lives in an insular village with only English speaking residents (somewhat rare nowdays) a visit to the nearest city or town would expose them to others speaking another language..... there are plenty of "life experiences" available without travelling abroad in term time...the problem isn't the school's rules stopping kids experiencing this -it's the parents who see no value in these things and whose idea of travelling abroad isn't to experience new culture but to visit a resort with British food and British pubs and the height of a cultural experience is a booze cruise ......nothing wrong with that kind of holiday but don't kid yourself it offers anything improving or cultural to children in the way a holiday experiencing day to day cultural differences and foods and customs and buildings etc would regardless of if the destination is Devon or Dubai ! Chav culture is chav culture whether the setting is Birmingham, Blackpool or Benidorm and is no more improving for happening in termtime rather than holiday time.

Person_one

Well yeah, there are loads of ways these parents could enrich their kid's lives in the UK in the school holidays, but as you point out yourself, they don't and/or won't.

What they might do is go on a cheap week in the sun because they want to, and the child benefits by accident. I can't begrudge them that.

For parents who do care and are just not very well off, they can make that 'chav' week in Spain very enriching and educational.

duchy

Person_one wrote: »

A different climate is so much more than a bit of sun! It's palm trees, it's the smell off the sea, it's little lizards scurrying about and visually stunning thunderstorms that you'd never see here.

Whatever you think of the parents, please don't underestimate the impact of a simple week in the sun on some of the least privileged children in our country.

It's resorts with satellite TV showing Enders, Essex and X factor, chips with everything and Carling on tap -like it or not that's the holiday the vast majority of what you call the under privelidged book. I know I've made their bookings ...... they want "everything like it is at home but sunny". Frankly a geography lesson in school is more likely to offer the type of enrichment you're talking about.