school fines for out of term holidays?

pollypenny

Maman, your ideas are sound. However, the training involved is rarely that which can be broken down into hour slots.

As I said, the most important session for me was the standardisation of coursework, starting with samples,then looking at whole folders. A highly focused day of hard concentration.

So that staff could spend the February 'holiday' finalising folder grades, before further sampling.

Oh, I dont miss that!

FBaby

I am planning on taking my kids out off school for three days just before the summer holidays this year and don't feel one tiny bit worried or guilty about it. My son will have finished year 6, with levels expected of a y9 pupil. My daughter's school arranges a whole week of activity that particular week (which we have to pay for and are not cheap) so she will only be trading one activity for another.

We will be travelling across Europe and that will definitely involve cultural experiences in addition to fun ones. I wouldn't have it any different and they do like learning about different cultures any way.

Last time I took them out for three days was 5 years ago. We went on holiday on an island. The holiday was very much about enjoying the beach and swimming pool, but we also visited the local villages where my kids got to meet local children and learn about their lives, the bog highlight being that many of them didn't have electricity, and it made then aware of all the things they do reliant on it. We also did a tour, learn about the geography of the island, that it sometimes doesn't rain for over 1 year and that's why water is precious (again, making them aware how we take it for granted), picking up volcanic rocks and experiencing the joy of watching whales swim. Our local tour guide was fantastic and taught all of us so much about the island. My kids were fascinated and still, 5 years on, talk about what they learnt.

So yes, I do think they learnt a lot that week and it was definitely worth missing three days (just before February holiday). I totally sympathise with teachers though as I can imagine how disruptive it would be for them if children were constantly missing class so something must be in place to prevent abuse, but I am not going to made to feel guilty because of my choices. The fines...if I have to pay them I will, it won't change how I feel.

maman

pollypenny wrote: »

Maman, your ideas are sound. However, the training involved is rarely that which can be broken down into hour slots.

As I said, the most important session for me was the standardisation of coursework, starting with samples,then looking at whole folders. A highly focused day of hard concentration.

So that staff could spend the February 'holiday' finalising folder grades, before further sampling.

Oh, I dont miss that!

Where's the tongue in cheek smiley when you need it???? To be honest, I was thinking that weekly planning could be done on Friday afternoons meaning that colleagues could work together and no need to pay for cover. I can see that it wouldn't work for training sessions.

duchy wrote: »

I can see all sides -as a parent but also from working in education.
It's understandable teachers get riled at the comments about the length of their holidays....however... all but the least experienced or most disorganized teachers non contact hours away from school simply put them on a par with the rest of the working population and their 30-35ish working days holiday a year. The time spent working is very similar just in a different format. Moving training "days" to say two evenings 4pm-7pm wouldn't affect the time spent training -but I'm sure the schools who already use the twilight format would have the teachers up in arms at losing a "day off" and delighted parents at not having to cover the daytime closure when the teachers weren't there anyway.

Training days are a pain for most working parents anyway and most parents would prefer to see them tagged onto the beginning or end of term -or half term anyway but when schools take the mickey like the school I worked at by closing the school when the training is done at other times anyway so there is no need to inconvenience vast number of parents with a closure then the whole way of doing things should be re-examined. Teachers keep very quiet about these kind of training days as they are only too well aware how parents would feel about them if they were generally known about. It smacks of hypocrisy to fine parents for absence when some schools are up to this kind of shenanigans which is as disruptive to education as a day off for any other reason -especially if the day falls midweek.

By shenanigans do you mean effectively taking time off in lieu? So teachers have given up time over a number of evenings to do the training sessions but you expect them to work the day too?

I'm amazed if that's what you really mean.

duchy

maman wrote: »

Where's the tongue in cheek smiley when you need it???? To be honest, I was thinking that weekly planning could be done on Friday afternoons meaning that colleagues could work together and no need to pay for cover. I can see that it wouldn't work for training sessions.



By shenanigans do you mean effectively taking time off in lieu? So teachers have given up time over a number of evenings to do the training sessions but you expect them to work the day too?

I'm amazed if that's what you really mean.

No the shenanigans is still closing the school for a day -midweek for absolutely no good reason. In this case it impacted over two thousand families. Parents were told the school was closed for staff training -but the building was empty as that training had been done at another time.

It's very nice that the teachers got the day off but it caused possibly a thousand other people to need to take time off or make alternative arrangements for their children. My point is there was no good reason to close the school -either training was done on the allotted day (so the school was closed for a reason) or that day was taken off the end of term not thrown in to give staff a random day off mid week and mid term . Presumably caretakers would be paid overtime to keep the school open in the evening, possibly evening classes normally held in school might need to be cancelled and extra heat and light was required to cover the evening. There appears to be no good or logical reason except to give teachers a day off in the middle of term (I can see why teachers would like it -but it seems to be a very selfish idea as it benefits no-one else and inconveniences many more) If we are going to fine parents for not respecting education then twilight training and forcing kids to be off mid term for no good reason other than the teachers chose to do their training at other times-goes completely against the idea that time off in termtime is unacceptable and merits "punishing" parents.

Every training day in every school creates lost working hours for the country-No-one is saying teachers don't need training and instruction - but there are few good reasons to disrupt the school week. If twilight is so popular with teachers then do the training after school and deduct the day from the end of the term. Parents in general find a block of days far easier to cover than a random day midterm (and some schools are better than others at announcing them in a timely manner -I've experienced them getting rescheduled at fairly short notice -causing problems as I was unable to reschedule my own work at such short notice).

We expect parents to work but schools still seem to believe Mums are either at home or can magic unexpected childcare out of nowhere. Ironic when you think how many employees in education are also parents.

plzhelpmesave!

Wow!! didn't expect so many replies-some great discussions going on!
Thanks for sharing guys....I won't be lying to school but will be honest and tell them we are on holiday. Kids all in primary school with excellent attendance - have been told today thatwe won't be fined as less than 10 sessions which is 5 days.

Thanks to all of you whoo replied - appreciate the different viewpoints. I know as a family we will have a great time and build some great lifellong memories

jellyhead

Spendless wrote: »

This isn't true of all areas. This year my kids broke up on Friday 19th July. The 1st day of school hols was Mon 22 July (not a training day). The school holidays finished on Friday 30th August exactly 6 weeks later. One of my children returned to school on Tues 3rd September as Monday 2nd was an inset day, the other returned a day later on Wed 4th Sept as both Mon and Tues were inset days at his school. My kids were off a full 6 weeks before inset days were added on.

We usually get 7 weeks off over Summer.

School often adds the INSET days onto the start or end of a holiday period, or around the may day and election time, so they have a 5 days long weekend off instead of going into school on the Friday in the middle.

It gives parents more chances to grab a cheap holiday

I don't have much of an opinion on the fines because my husband has always been able to take a week off In May half term or the summer holidays. We seem to be unusual in that a week is okay though - we don't expect 2 weeks holiday, if we did we'd be sorely disappointed because we're poor. My 8 year old has only been abroad once, and 7 days was long enough for that, although it was only the Canaries so it wasn't a very long flight.

I can't imagine that many families stay on a resort for the entire holiday? We certainly didn't during our 7-day holiday. I suppose a Florida holiday might be all about the theme parks, but for us paupers going to Paris instead surely most people go to see the Eiffel tower if nothing else, unless their break was only for a day or two.

jellyhead

Person_one wrote: »

Children experience a different climate, they will probably make friends with other kids from all over the country and even other countries, they might learn a word or two in Spanish, it might be the first time they get to put their feet in the sea. Even the experience of going on a plane and seeing the clouds from above is an amazing experience for a child who has a very narrow life the rest of the year.

Somebody else has replied to this, but although I agree with most of your post I can't understand a child not going to the seaside in the UK, not if their parents have the money and time to spend getting to an airport and hanging around to check in, etc.

My 8 year old feels that he is missing out because he can't remember going on a plane, bless him. I'm going to try to take him somewhere in 2014. It's all very well being smug and only taking term-time holidays in the UK, but he'd love to go to Paris and Disneyland. Maybe we can do it during holidays though, I haven't looked into it yet. I'm unlikely to be fined even if we miss some school, because I'm unlikely to afford 5 days :rotfl:

Spendless

FBaby wrote: »

I am planning on taking my kids out off school for three days just before the summer holidays this year and don't feel one tiny bit worried or guilty about it. My son will have finished year 6, with levels expected of a y9 pupil.

Is your son's school closing earlier than your daughter's?

Mine finishes yr6 this year too, but the last few days are dedicated to taking them on an end of year school trip, having a leaving concert that parents are invited to and being allowed on their last day to collect signatures all over their school jumper from the other pupils. I don't think DD would want to miss out on any of it. We have had a term time holiday authorised under exceptional circumstances rules and are going to Florida in May after SATS but before transition to Secondary starts.

FBaby

It's my DD. They don't close, but each year, the last week becomes activity week. They have to select an activity each day and a couple that are week long. To be fair, there is a mixture of free and paid daily activities, but of course, most kids want to do the most expensive (like a trip to Thorpe Park!). Some of these activities could be classified as educational, but no more than the education they receive when we go on holiday.

6 weeks ago, my DD went to a school trip missing two days of school to Paris. It consisted of a tour of the city one day, and Disney the other, so again, nothing different to what we do on our holiday (mixing education and fun). I think the school would apply serious double standard by charging people for two days in the year for their trips when the school thinks nothing wrong of it themselves. My DD had a great time and did learn things, so I would agree that it was beneficial, but so are our holidays (and in a total of 10 years, it will only be a total of 5 days taken during school time).

My son is so looking forward to this holiday, I know he won't miss being there the last few days. He is very familiar with the secondary school he will be going to and can't wait to be there. He knows many friends who will be there too so no anxiety there. As for the signature of shirts and things, that's not something he is bothered with. He has his very good friends he sees outside of school, so that's not the type of thing he would put before the chance of our holiday.

Glad you got your holiday authorised. It shows that despite the change this year, many schools are still prepared to be flexible. I am quite confident it will the same for us, but if not, we'll pay the fine.

Janepig

jellyhead wrote: »

My 8 year old feels that he is missing out because he can't remember going on a plane, bless him. I'm going to try to take him somewhere in 2014. It's all very well being smug and only taking term-time holidays in the UK, but he'd love to go to Paris and Disneyland. Maybe we can do it during holidays though, I haven't looked into it yet. I'm unlikely to be fined even if we miss some school, because I'm unlikely to afford 5 days :rotfl:

We went to Disneyland Paris in 2012 and my two missed three days of school (authorised) because we flew to Paris on the Tuesday which was the second of two inset days at the start of term, and we came back on the Friday night. It cost an arm and a leg to do it in term time, and we're not flush, but I'd never have done it in term time, a) for cost reasons, and b) we queued long enough for rides as it was - looking at queue times on an app I had for the weekend after we came back, they were upwards of an hour and a half for the big rides.

The kids were 8 and 6 when we went and I can't say I've noticed any lasting damage from missing the first three days of the start of term in January.

Like it or not, kids generally enjoy going to theme parks, but it's my idea of hell on earth to go to a theme park in the school holidays, where's the fun in queueing nearly two hours to go on the rides. We took the kids to Legoland Windsor in August afew years ago, never ever again. The next time we took them was on an inset day in May and it was fab, it felt like we had the park to ourselves!

So that's what we tend to do on inset days now, me and DH try and get the time off together and we go to whatever theme park the kids want to go to.

Jx