Crazy JSA Sanction

Confuseddot

Morlock wrote: »

Yes, I already knew that.



I never claimed that all of them had an immediate cessation, but that many would have.

how many ?

szam_

busy_mom wrote: »

is they any bit you would like me to try to expalin further? And that is not a meant with any sarcasm, I just would like people to try to understand the process rather than slam the adviser.

I have a quick question if you don't mind. I don't know if you'd know the answer, but worth a shot.

Just curious as I've seen this 770,000 figure a few times before.

Is this the amount of people, or the amount of referrals? I would have thought it'd be referrals, where people have been sanctioned on more than one occasion. I can imagine a few people being troublemakers, and get sanctioned multiple times a year, regardless of whether they appealed successfully or not.

770,000 just seems very high to be the amount of people sanctioned.

busy_mom_2

Confuseddot wrote: »

I was referring to this part

"Only two of all the referrals may warrant a late payment if they are subsequently allowed and those are availability and actively seeking, all other doubts are paid and a later sanction imposed once a decision is made."


So more than 1/2 of those you quoted wouldn't have immediate cessation of benefits and probably some wouldn't even have been aware they have been referred.

The only two sanction to be suspended would be activeley seeking and availabilty. Each signing the person signs to say they have actively seeken work and been available in accordance with their agreement. Any doubts such as they have not done enough steps or they have a reason for not completing jobsearch such a looking after a relative or death, waiting in for the council, then in these circumstance the benefit will be suspended and the details sent to a DM. If disallowed then no, the person will not get any money but if they are allowed then their payment will be relaesed but result in delay.

Other sanction such as failure to attend, not attended training or been sacked from previous job, the person will provide a statement as to why they didn't attend on the correct day, why they failed to attend said training course of the reason why their employment was terminated and those reason will be looked at, no suspension but a future sanction may be imposed and this will be from the nearest future benefit week ending.

Thre is a difference between a sanction( future) and a disallowance (past) in terms of notice.

All jobseekers should be aware they are being referred for a doubt.

Morlock

Confuseddot wrote: »

how many ?

I addressed this in my previous post.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=64207539&postcount=230

busy_mom_2

szam_ wrote: »

I have a quick question if you don't mind. I don't know if you'd know the answer, but worth a shot.

Just curious as I've seen this 770,000 figure a few times before.

Is this the amount of people, or the amount of referrals? I would have thought it'd be referrals, where people have been sanctioned on more than one occasion. I can imagine a few people being troublemakers, and get sanctioned multiple times a year, regardless of whether they appealed successfully or not.

770,000 just seems very high to be the amount of people sanctioned.

It does seem high and I cannot quote if this is correct or not, but I can say that an average office will only refer around 5% of its total JSA register per month, I hate to admit but my maths is not great, out of the millions claiming JSA does 770,000 amount to around 5%?

Out of the 5% just over half of those will have an adverse santion. Yes many people do have multiple sanctions so I find the figures in terms of how many individuals impossible. One person may never recieve a sanction some once is enough and others have double figures.

I'm sorry I cannot provide much more and no doubt many will find this amusing

szam_

busy_mom wrote: »

It does seem high and I cannot quote if this is correct or not, but I can say that an average office will only refer around 5% of its total JSA register per month, I hate to admit but my maths is not great, out of the millions claiming JSA does 770,000 amount to around 5%?

Out of the 5% just over half of those will have an adverse santion. Yes many people do have multiple sanctions so I find the figures in terms of how many individuals impossible. One person may never recieve a sanction some once is enough and others have double figures.

I'm sorry I cannot provide much more and no doubt many will find this amusing

Thanks.

I would imagine 770,000 people would be something in the region of 25-40% of people if that was true. I can't recall how many people I hear the news/gov say are claiming JSA, was it somewhere in the region of 2 million? It just sounded like an incredibly large figure to me, to mean the amount of people who have received a sanction in a year.

Just always been curious what the figure referred to really.

Morlock

szam_ wrote: »

I have a quick question if you don't mind. I don't know if you'd know the answer, but worth a shot.

Just curious as I've seen this 770,000 figure a few times before.

Is this the amount of people, or the amount of referrals?

770,000 is the number of referrals to a decision maker that did not result in an adverse decision.

"Under the new sanctions regime, introduced on 22nd October 2012, a total of 1.35 million sanction decisions have been made up to June 2013, of which, 0.58 million were adverse decisions."

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/255176/sanctions-nov-2013.pdf

1.35 million referral decisions were made, 580,000 resulted in an adverse decision. 770,000 either did not result in an adverse decision or were reversed. However, some of those 770,000 will have had sanctions imposed before a decision was made, and also includes decisions reversed upon reconsideration or appeal.

busy_mom_2

szam_ wrote: »

Thanks.

I would imagine 770,000 people would be something in the region of 25-40% of people if that was true. I can't recall how many people I hear the news/gov say are claiming JSA, was it somewhere in the region of 2 million? It just sounded like an incredibly large figure to me, to mean the amount of people who have received a sanction in a year.

Just always been curious what the figure referred to really.

I have never known an office reach those figures, mine has reached a highest of 8%.

Take one person getting referred numerous times and the figures become destorted, but we all know figures can be manipulated to look good or bad.

szam_

Morlock wrote: »

770,000 is the number of referrals to a decision maker that did not result in an adverse decision, no sanction was enforced.

"Under the new sanctions regime, introduced on 22nd October 2012, a total of 1.35 million sanction decisions have been made up to June 2013, of which, 0.58 million were adverse decisions."

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/255176/sanctions-nov-2013.pdf

1.35 million referral decisions were made, 580,000 resulted in a sanction, 770,000 did not.

Wow.

1.35 million? It'd be interesting to find out how many decision makers there are, divide that by the 1.35 million and see how many they have to do in a year. You could probably break it down to a day, too. Might give an insight in to how busy (or not busy as may be the case) they are. If they are skimming through and not having much time to put the relevant time and thought in to a referral, it might explain why mistakes are made.

busy_mom_2

Morlock wrote: »

770,000 is the number of referrals to a decision maker that did not result in an adverse decision, no sanction was enforced.

"Under the new sanctions regime, introduced on 22nd October 2012, a total of 1.35 million sanction decisions have been made up to June 2013, of which, 0.58 million were adverse decisions."

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/255176/sanctions-nov-2013.pdf

1.35 million referral decisions were made, 580,000 resulted in a sanction, 770,000 did not.

Can I also say that there are other reason for an allowance and it may get complicated....let me try

If a person is disallowed for actively seeking and recieves a two week disallowance and during that period they also failed to attend, failed to apply for a job or any other labour market failure during that disallowance period then they would automatically be allowed for their reason regardless of what they arebecause for any other referral the date of transgretion ( date of the failure) falls in a disallowance period the person cannot be mandated to do any other activity.

The sanction regime is not all it seems to be.