Damsel in confusion and distress!

Tjinks

Well, i replued to excels parking notice with this template i found online

!

Without prejudice, except as to costs

Parking Charge Notice -!Notice to Keeper!
!
This letter is a!formal challenge!to the issue of yourParking Charge Notice -!Notice to Keeper as set out in the!current!BPA!Ltd!AOS Code of Practice B.22
!
On 20/10/13 i!was the registered keeper of a nissan figaro!registration number
!
Before I decide how to deal with your!Parking Charge Notice -!Notice to Keeper, I should be grateful if you would first answer all the questions and deal with all the issues I have set out below. Once you have done so, I will be able to make an informed decision on how I deal with the matter.
!
I should be grateful for!specific!answers to all questions raised. In this respect I remind you of the obligations set out in the current Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

I dispute!your claim!for the reasons set out below. Please note that although I dispute the whole basis of the parking charge, my main concern is its disproportionate and punitive level.
I do not dispute that i parked there at all, infact i parked, realise i needed change, ran to nearest store to get change, returned and aid within 2 minutes, i input my reg into machine( can this no be checked? Did i mix a letter up in haste?) and i then displayed my ticket, i did not keep it as i never thought id need it.!

1. Your parking charge amount claim.
!
Please explain!on which of the following grounds your claim is based:
!
(i)!​Damages for trespass

(ii)!​Damages for breach of contract

(iii)​!A contractual sum

2. Your loss.
!
If it is your case that that a trespass was committed or that a contract was breached such that your claim is one for damages;!please give me a full breakdown of the actual losses!which evidences that this parking charge is a true reflection of the damages caused solely by the alleged parking contravention.


3. Your status – the creditor.
!
Your!Parking Charge Notice -!Notice to Keeper simply mentions excel parking,Please tell me who is the actual creditor making this £60!!parking charge demand. I need to know exactly who is making the claim and in what capacity.
!
4. Ownership of premises.
!
Please tell me who owns the car park as I wish to send them a copy of this letter.

5. Contractual Authority (as required by!BPA Ltd AOS CoP B.7)
!
Please provide me with a copy of the contract between your company and the landowner/landholder that provides the necessary contractual written authority for the issue and enforcement of your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to!Keeper.
!
6. Signage.
!
If it is your case that a contract has been breached or that a contractual sum is now due, please send me photographs of the signs that you display and upon which you seek to evidence that a lawful and legally enforceable contract was been entered into. Please ensure that the photographs show the terms and conditions in a clear and legible manner. Please provide me with a diagram showing the locations and layout of those signs at the car park.!Also provide evidence that the wording is in plain and intelligible language and in sufficiently large print as to be legible to a driver at the car park’s entry point.

7. Summary

I look forward to receiving your acknowledgement within 14 days and as there are no ‘exceptional circumstances’ your!comprehensive reply within 35 days (in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22.8). I will then be able to make an informed decision as to how I deal with your Parking Charge Notice – Notice to Keeper.

If you reject this challenge or fail to address the issues that have been raised then,!in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediately refer the matter for their decision.

If you fail to follow any of the procedures outlined in the BPA AOS Code of Practice or your legal requirements under the Protection of Freedoms Act, or the requirements of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct then I will make a formal complaint to the DVLA Data Sharing Policy Group, D16.

Please Note: Unless you have specifically requested it and received my express permission, you do not have my authority to disclose or refer this letter or any other communication from me to any other person
So, hopefully that was the end, but no. Ive received another now with a popla form attached, do i just do the same again?

My problem is i didnt keep my ticket that i popped on my screen because i never do! I hate messy cars! But i absolutely did pay so whats next please? I have no evidence! I appreciate any kind advice xx

Oh and its moor street car park in brierley hill, forgot to say and the company is called excel parking

They say they cannot find a record of m reg number, please what do. Say on my popla form? I posted on another forum but they talk like solicitors and tell me to look at completed caese and compose my wn draft letter and theyll go through it! I just dont understand the jargon in the cases:(

Stroma

All far to much IMO , keep it simple as below as it's not likely to be accepted no matter what you put. So a few questions

1) is the England or Wales?
2) are you the registered keeper?
3) was it a ticket on the car or posted to you?

Thanks

Stroma

Dear Ticketers

I am as the registered keeper of ( reg) and in receipt of your notice to keeper xxxxx dated xxxxxx, all liability to your company is denied, so as the RK I wish to invoke your appeals process on the following:

1) This charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
2) You do not have the authority or permission to give these invoices to motorists
3) Your signage is inadequate, and does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice

You are therefore invited to cancel this charge now, or supply a popla verification code to appeal to them on rejection, where you will be asked for a detailed breakdown of the above. As you know all appeals on the points above are upheld.

Please confirm cancellation within 35 days of the above date

Faithfully
The registered keeper

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Well that's exactly what u need to do.
People on pepipoo don't talk like solicitors tbh and you get a lot of the same posters on here.

What u have posted is to badly copied etc for me to even attempt to read.

I also suggest you re read what you typed and edit it

Tjinks

1 its in uk
1 yes im the registered kerper
3 it was through the post

Tjinks

And they rejected my letter and sent me a letter to fill in to send to popla, just needed to know how to word it? They have a photo of my car and i dont deny being there, i absolutely did put a ticket on my windscreen though after entering my reg into the machine, they have no record of my reg though! Wouldnt they have cctv of me at the machine.. .?

4consumerrights

I should be grateful for!specific!answers to all questions raised. In this respect I remind you of the obligations set out in the current Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

I'm not surprised they rejected your appeal quoting paragraphs like that above - you haven't reached letter before action or threats of court action yet! Not to mention your confusion and bad grammar.

Now you have a POPLA code - make sure you use it more wisely and do some research of POPLA appeals starting by reading coupons newbie sticky thread and follow advice and links contained - under popla appeals and all threads from that link.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822


DO MAKE SURE YOU POST UP YOUR POPLA APPEAL BEFORE SUBMITTING TO STAND A CHANCE OF WINNING.

Redx

Tjinks wrote: »

1 its in uk
1 yes im the registered kerper
3 it was through the post

FOR INFO

bear in mind that one of the questions asked if you are in ENGLAND AND WALES , not the uk

laws differ according to region, so saying you are in the UK means nothing really, and wasnt the question

regards

ps:- this was the question in the list of questions

So a few questions

1) is the England or Wales?
2) are you the registered keeper?
3) was it a ticket on the car or posted to you?

Tjinks

Its england

Tjinks

Firstly, I'm not clear which of the 4 'Why you are appealing?' boxes actually applies here, tbh. 'The parking charge exceeded the appropriate amount; seems to be the most applicable but...

Hows this?

"Preliminary information here

I want to appeal this charge and have it cancelled. Here are the reasons that I think you should cancel it:


1. Excel’s legal capacity to enforce/issue Parking Charge Notices.


In their correspondence with me, Excel have not produced any evidence to show that they have any proprietary interest in the M***C*****car park in B***********have they provided any evidence that they are lawfully entitled to demand money from a driver or keeper. As it appears that they do not own the land, nor have any interest or assignment of title of the land in question, it is assumed that they are merely agents for the owner or legal occupier. I contend, therefore, that they do not have the necessary legal capacity to charge the driver of a vehicle for using the car park.


So, I require that Excel provide a full, up-to date, signed and dated contract or agreement with the landowner . A signed witness statement stating that someone has seen a contract is not sufficient. The contract must state that Excel are entitled to pursue these matters through the issue of PCNs and through the courts. This needs to be an actual copy and not simply a document which claims that such a contract or agreement exists.


2. Trespass


Without a contract, the most appropriate offence would be of civil trespass. If this was the case, the remedy would be to award damages to Excel. Given that there was no damage to the car park, the car park was not full when my car entered or left and Excel do not own the car park, I suggest that there was no loss to Excel at all.


3. Unlawful Penalty Charge


Excel alleges a breach of contract. However, without any demonstrable loss or damage, it can only remain a fact that this 'charge' is an attempt to dress up an unlawful penalty to impersonate a parking ticket. This is similar to the decisions in several County Court cases such as Excel Parking Services v Hetherington-Jakeman (2008) OB Services v Thurlow (review, February 2011), Parking Eye v Smith (Manchester County Court December 2011) and UKCPS v Murphy (April 2012) .


On this basis, this 'charge' fails to meet the standards set out in paragraph 19 of the British Parking Association’s Code of Practice. It also fails to comply with the CPUTR 2008, the UTCCR 1999, the Equality Act 2010 and basic contract law.


4. The charge is a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss


The PCN records the duration of stay at xx minutes, whilst the tariff set by the operator for a 1-2 hour stay is just £1. Excel is asking for a charge of £100. This far exceeds the cost to the landowner for the time my car was parked there. The charge cannot be construed as anything but a punitive penalty.


Following my appeal directly to Excel, they did not address this issue. They have not stated why they feel a £100 charge is an appropriate pre-estimate of loss. To justify this charge, I require that Excel supply a full breakdown of the costs they have suffered as a result of the car being parked at the car park. This breakdown must add up to £100. Normal expenditure that Excel incurs to carry on their business - their operational day-to-day running costs (e.g. provision of parking, parking enforcement, signage erection, salaries and office rent) must not be included in the breakdown; these are operational costs which Excel would suffer irrespective of the car being parked at that car park.


I refer POPLA to the case of Vehicle Control Services Ltd vs Mr R Ibbotson (16th May 2012) which found that general business costs cannot constitute a loss. This has also has been held in a number of very recent compelling, and comparable, decisions against Excel when POPLA has considered similar cases.


Therefore, this £100 charge does not represent a loss resulting from a breach of the alleged parking contract. In other words, were no breach to have happened, the cost of parking enforcement would still have been the same. This has been quoted by POPLA itself in adjudication. The amount of the “penalty” imposed is completely disproportionate to any alleged “loss” by Excel. It is, therefore, punitive and contravenes the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997.

I contend there can be no loss shown whatsoever; no pre-estimate (prior to starting to 'charge for breaches' at this site) has been prepared or considered in advance. As such, the charge that was levied is punitive and therefore void (i.e. unenforceable) against me.


I also refer the Adjudicator to the recent Appeal Court decision in the case of Vehicle Control Services (VCS) v HMRC (EWCA Civ 186 [2013]). This case determined the actual nature of Private Parking Charges. It was stated that, "If those charges are consideration for a supply of goods or services, they will be subject to VAT. If, on the other hand, they are damages they will not be." The Court ruling was "...that the monies that VCS collected from motorists by enforcement of parking charges were not consideration moving from the landowner in return for the supply of parking services." In other words, they are not, as the Operator asserts, a contractual term. If they were a contractual term, the Operator would have to provide a VAT invoice. This provides a means of payment at the point of supply, and a means to account to HMRC for the VAT element of the charge. No VAT is itemised on this PCN. It must, therefore, be concluded that the Operator's charges are in fact damages, or penalties, for which the Operator must demonstrate his actual, or pre-estimated, losses, as set out above.


5. ANPR section of the BPA Code of Practice/Use of ANPR and data collection


I also contend that Excel have failed to show me any evidence that the cameras used at this car park comply with the requirements of the BPA Code of Practice part 21 (ANPR). I require POPLA to consider that particular section of the Code in its entirety, and decide whether Excel has shown proof of contemporaneous manual checks and full compliance with section 21 of the Code, in its evidence.


6. No contract with the driver


The Operator refers in their correspondence to “contractually agreed Terms and Conditions”, however, I assert that there is no contract between Excel Parking Ltd and the driver.

I challenge the Operator to provide strict and robust proof that a contract existed between Excel Parking Ltd and the driver on the day in question, which meets all the legal requirements of contract formation, such as a meeting of minds, agreement, certainty of terms etc. If not all of these requirements were satisfied, any contract would be deemed “unfair” in the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

You would tick

"not liable for this charge"