Energy bill hikes to last 17 more years - watchdog

Aberdeenangarse

grizzly1911 wrote: »

I wondered where you got your nonsense from.


Perhaps you could insert £30K and see what it churns out?

Oooooooh ..........I know this one,I know this one

A set of windows and an annual saving of £100 on your gas bill! :rotfl:

kabayiri

MFW needs to give his 30K windows time to bed in, and report back in a years time with *actual* savings, not projected.

Some of us have had a good few years now with different energy saving devices. They have their place, but let's not pretend they will neutralise 17 years of future price increases.

MFW_ASAP

kabayiri wrote: »

MFW needs to give his 30K windows time to bed in, and report back in a years time with *actual* savings, not projected.

Some of us have had a good few years now with different energy saving devices. They have their place, but let's not pretend they will neutralise 17 years of future price increases.

It's enlightening how certain people concentrate on the cost of my windows. To me it seems a lot of money, but not excessive for a house with 44 windows. It is also enlightening how many of the same people concentrate solely on the price of something and the payback, a case of knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing? They have the same approach with houses, worrying themselves to an early grave about the purchase price and not the actual value of home ownership.

Hey ho, I've met these types of people all my life and they will never change. What is interesting is that they are generally not doing as well as people with a more open attitude. Don't they see this?

As to your other point, it would be interesting to know what these energy saving devices are. People often forget that most heat actually goes through the walls, not the windows or ceiling. Yes very few people will insulate their walls, other than put some blown insulation into the cavity, which generally has poor distribution (i.e. thicker in some places, non-existent in others) and has little impact on u values.



Perhaps the issue is with education? I have come across many who think that lagging the loft really well, will reduce their heat loss by 25% (look, it says so in the diagram!!). However, if all people do is insulate the loft, then that heat will just travel out through the walls, windows, doors and floors, proportionally increasing the losses through those areas.

The approach is to improve the entire thermal envelope of the house. If you do that to current building regs, then your heating bills will be reduced to next to nothing.

It is much easier to reduce power consumption. If people simply went back to the old days where they had one TV, rather than one in every room, didn't have mobile phones, ipods, ipads, all plugged in and overcharging, they didn't have microwaves, stereos, ovens, radios on standby or with digital clocks on all the time (do we really need every appliance to tell us the time?!)

With the advances in electronics, with LEDs instead of incandescent lighting, LED tvs instead of cathode ray tubes, induction hobs instead of electrical coils, etc, etc. If we went back to the useage of the 1970s or 80s but with modern energy efficient items, then we would cut our electricity demand by half. What has happened is that as we have improved energy efficiency in the electrical goods we have, we have increased their number to fill the void. This is fine, but it is a choice. Just like the citizens of the 1970s, we need fridges, cookers, lighting, etc. we don't need mobile phones, a TV in every room, items left on standby. If people are struggling with their bills, they can choose not to have all these things.

This is before we even look at installing solar PV and solar thermal.

I do have full details of my energy usage though and will happily report back the values as time goes by and as we continue to improve our thermal envelope. We have seen a 10% reduction year on year over the last 3 years on our electricity usage, as we have replaced white goods, etc.

Our gas useage has also gone down quite a bit since we installed the 'warm roof', but this is more difficult to track because we use our 2 woodburning stoves a lot (and we get free wood). I'll endeavour to do my best though. Environmentalism starts at home and it is a subject I am passionate about, so anything I can do to encourage people to reduce their carbon footprint is time well spent.

MFW_ASAP

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Which is, errr, true.

And doesn't state anything you said I had stated, which is why, I assume, after searching, you haven't linked to a single post.

Well, you seem to have gone quiet on the Listed Building consent discussion, you can't really take the high ground in one discussion while ghosting out of another....

Do I get an apology for your ill-advised mock-fest post?

grizzly1911

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

It's enlightening how certain people concentrate on the cost of my windows. To me it seems a lot of money, but not excessive for a house with 44 windows. It is also enlightening how many of the same people concentrate solely on the price of something and the payback, a case of knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing? They have the same approach with houses, worrying themselves to an early grave about the purchase price and not the actual value of home ownership.

Hey ho, I've met these types of people all my life and they will never change. What is interesting is that they are generally not doing as well as people with a more open attitude. Don't they see this?

You mentioned the cost of the installation. You could simply have said"we are having double glazing installed alongside other measures".

Some people do actually own their houses out right along with other property interests and investment portfolios. Energy conservation and insulation isn't rocket science. Ground source heat pumps and heat recovery etc isn't really much mainstream use.

The rest of your post made a lot of sense.

Sad you get hung up issues of your making.

MFW_ASAP

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Ground source heat pumps and heat recovery etc isn't really much mainstream use.

The rest of your post made a lot of sense.

Sad you get hung up issues of your making.

I never mentioned ground sourced heat pumps or heat recovery in my post. An example of how you haters drag up issues not of my making.

grizzly1911

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

I never mentioned ground sourced heat pumps or heat recovery in my post. An example of how you haters drag up issues not of my making.

No you didn't but that would be interesting.

Doubleglazing is so yesterdays news.

Strawmen aren't my forte others on here do a much better job as you know.

P.S. Nobody hates you.

owen_money

Build more wind turbines

MFW_ASAP

grizzly1911 wrote: »

No you didn't but that would be interesting.

Doubleglazing is so yesterdays news.

Strawmen aren't my forte others on here do a much better job as you know.

P.S. Nobody hates you.

I do have knowledge on GSHP and MHRV systems that I could impart, but then the 'lovers'(?) such as Graham would be jumping all over me again mocking how I'm looking at GSHP before sorting out my windows. :rotfl:

As you have expressed an interest though I'm happy to discuss. In order to get the best return from an investment in any of the so-called Green Technologies, but especially Heat Pumps, you need to make sure that your house is as thermally efficient as possible.

Air to Water or Water to Water heat pumps run at a much lower temperature than traditional heating and therefore lend themselves towards underfloor heating rather than radiators. The lower temperatures mean that you have to ensure that the heat doesn't escape through the walls faster than it is produced or you'll never be warm enough. Hence the need to tackle the thermal envelope first.

For a renovation project as mine, I've identified the following steps that I will be following:

1. Improve thermal efficiency and airtightness of the whole structure. This includes fitting a 'warm roof' (done), loft insulation (done), ceiling void insulation (in process), floor slab insulation (TBD), internal wall insulation (in process), external doors and high performance glazing systems.

2. Install UFH pipes in all renovated rooms, install ventilation ducting in all renovated rooms. Eventually all rooms will have UFH and ducting.

3. Install a mechanical heat recovery ventilation system (conected to ducting already installed in all rooms). This extracts from our Wet areas (toilets, bathrooms, utility & kitchen) and supplies to our bedrooms and livng rooms. The added benefit apart from heat recovery is that you only have 2 'breakouts' in the envelope of the building - an air extract and an air intake, instead of having one in every bathroom, utility room and toilet.

4. Install solar PV and connect to an Immersun device to direct excess generation to the hot water tank. I was originally looking at a combination of PV and thermal panels but I've been convinced that PV is the better option.

5. Install rainwater harvesting tank to supply water to toilets, outside tap and washing machine.

6. Look at the comparable costs for fitting heat pumps over remaining with mains gas. If figures work out then install GSHP and do away completely with gas.

With steps 1 thru 3, we will massively reduce our space heating requirements, hopefully to the point where we can heat the house with the free wood that we receive.

With step 4, we can further reduce our electricity bill, plus we can perhaps heat all our hot water for showers, etc. in Summer totally with solar.

With step 5. We can cut our water bill by half. We would further reduce it because our excess rainwater will go into a local brook, not the mains sewer so we receive a rebate.

With step 6. We could eliminate our gas standing order and use electricity for our heating. This could run on an economy 7 style meter (but it switches more times per day than the old economy 7 did). I've yet to be convinced about this one, as it depends on how much gas costs go up and how much solar PV would reduce our electricity costs/usage.

Once this is all done, we will have a large farm house that costs the same to run as a small terrace. We can then sell it as such (and demand a premium in a world wih high energy prices) or continue to live here into our old age and not worry about 'heating or eating'.

I have the same approach with my home as I have with my pensions. I am happy to invest today in order to reap the benefts in the future. Some people are content to moan about their lot on internet forums and do nothing, I'm not. I roll up my sleeves and get on with it.

chucky

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Which is, errr, true.

And doesn't state anything you said I had stated, which is why, I assume, after searching, you haven't linked to a single post.

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

Well, you seem to have gone quiet on the Listed Building consent discussion, you can't really take the high ground in one discussion while ghosting out of another....

Do I get an apology for your ill-advised mock-fest post?

^^^Bump^^^