Energy bill hikes to last 17 more years - watchdog

MFW_ASAP

grizzly1911 wrote: »

So the windows aren't going to pay for themselves in the short, medium, or long term I take it.

Did you pick them or SWMBO SAHM?

Oh dear, are you personalising the discussion because you're losing it?

Tut. This happens all the time with you Griz. You get defeated in a debate and then you 'go off on one', then stalk the person around the boards making inane comments. That's the reason I stopped engaging with you in discussions.

Graham_Devon

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

You've done nothing but on this thread. I suggest you re-read your contributions.

In other words grizzly, you questioned something.

And now you shall pay!

MFW_ASAP

Graham_Devon wrote: »

In other words grizzly, you questioned something.

And now you shall pay!

LOL, here we go. :rotfl:


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grizzly1911

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

Oh dear, are you personalising the discussion because you're losing it?

Tut. This happens all the time with you Griz. You get defeated in a debate and then you 'go off on one', then stalk the person around the boards making inane comments. That's the reason I stopped engaging with you in discussions.

You mentioned SAHM not me.

I take it they aren't going to pay for themselves, as you made out and you didn't choose the windows either.

I don't think banter on two co running threads, on the same forum, can seriously be classed as stalking. I guess you know better than most.

MFW_ASAP

grizzly1911 wrote: »

You mentioned SAHM not me.

I take it they aren't going to pay for themselves, as you made out and you didn't choose the windows either.

I don't think banter on two co running threads, on the same forum, can seriously be classed as stalking. I guess you know better than most.

Deary me, griz. *shakes head in dismay*

Anyway, getting back to the energy price rises topic anyone? The usual suspects are trying to disrupt it, but hopefully we can get it back on track.

wotsthat

grizzly1911 wrote: »

So the windows aren't going to pay for themselves in the short, medium, or long term I take it.

I don't look at energy saving in this rather over-simplistic way.

I need a new dishwasher. A new one might cost, say, £250 and save 10p per wash. I don't think it's not worth it because it'll take 7 years to 'pay for itself'. I need a new one anyway so instead I'd look at the cost difference of buying a super energy efficient one and one that's less efficient and work out that payback instead.

Doing the same calculations on a new boiler as well.

The dishwasher will be used until it drops. The energy savings on a new boiler are sufficient that the current boiler is scrapped despite being perfectly serviceable.

CLAPTON

the report simply extrapolates from the present based on existing government policy and as such is a warning where we will be if we don't adopt more sensible policies

currently large sums of money are being wasted (it's called investment by the utilities because 'investment ' money can be charged back to the customer irrespective of the value of the investment.

the money is wasted

: extending the grid to all the semi - useless wind turbines that produce no power in cold winter weather where are is a high pressure belt over the UK (those beautiful clear blue sky at Xmas ; but freezing cold)

: smart meters that bring no actual power savings but do offer the government/utilities the ability to switch off the power on a selective basis if required

: many of the 'green' home improvement money is just not value for money: as it's free to the customer you can be sure its wasted.. the utilities don't care as they can pass it on to the bill, and the people that receive it don't care about value for money as it's free.

The is no audit conducted to assess value or indeed even if the work is actually carried out

: the green deal -well at least that seems to have a very small take up -totally corrupt deal

: nuclear seems to guarantee a doubling of the raw material price (plus inflation of course) with guaranteed useage irrespective of global prices or actual requirements

: the company ac/s are too opaque to see what level of real profits they are making


It's undoubtedly true we do need to improve the thermal properties of the housing stock and need better materials and knowledge about the best most effective and cost effective ways

and things that give us self sufficiency are worth paying for although relying on the Chinese doesn't seem a winning idea.

MFW_ASAP

wotsthat wrote: »

I don't look at energy saving in this rather over-simplistic way.

I need a new dishwasher. A new one might cost, say, £250 and save 10p per wash. I don't think it's not worth it because it'll take 7 years to 'pay for itself'. I need a new one anyway so instead I'd look at the cost difference of buying a super energy efficient one and one that's less efficient and work out that payback instead.

Doing the same calculations on a new boiler as well.

The dishwasher will be used until it drops. The energy savings on a new boiler are sufficient that the current boiler is scrapped despite being perfectly serviceable.

I look at things in a similar way. Our current windows are rotten, have a very small gap between the 2 panes and you can feel the coldness of the drafts when you sit near them. Some of the openers are ready to fall out and so the security of our house is really compromised.

I therefore look at the payback in terms of improvement to aesthetics of the house (we live in a listed building and we are fitting beautiful windows), the security of the house (I work away all week in Aberdeen and want my family to be secure), the warmth of my family, the reduction in damp (no more condensation on the windows and window cills) and lastly the impact it will have on my heating bills (coupled with the insulation I have already installed).

All of that adds up to a relatively short 'payback' within the terms of my payback criteria - i.e. the security is immediately improved and if they prevent my family from being murdered in their beds then the windows will have paid for themselves immediately. Most houses can fit UPVC double glazing and they would have little or no effect on the value of the house (most buyers expect them to be fitted), but they would have an effect on the energy efficiency. In our case, with a heritage/listed property, we can't have upvc and so we have to spend much more on the windows, but unlike normal homes we would see a payback because the house will be worth more.

As an aside, the windows we are fitting are lovely. Bronze casements with crown glass that gives a lovely rippled effect. They will probably last about 200 years before they need replacing. I guess this indicates the different perspective that owners of heritage properties have that other people don't (and hence why griz simply cant understand) - we are custodians of our properties and so the work we do is not just for us, but for future generations.

grizzly1911

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

Deary me, griz. *shakes head in dismay*

Anyway, getting back to the energy price rises topic anyone? The usual suspects are trying to disrupt it, but hopefully we can get it back on track.

I thought the purpose of the post was to let us know how wise you are?

"We're about to fit double glazing to our house at a cost of nearly £30k. With energy prices constantly rising, it won't be long before the windows pay for themselves"

EDIT:- Payback measures have now been changed to include "family not being murdered in their beds"

The government ought to employ you as a benefits realisation manager on HS2even that may meet its target with such dramatic creativity.Then again it is close to Oldham.

Graham_Devon

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

I look at things in a similar way. Our current windows are rotten, have a very small gap between the 2 panes and you can feel the coldness of the drafts when you sit near them. Some of the openers are ready to fall out and so the security of our house is really compromised.

Errr, why didn't you do the windows before the rest of the stuff you have done then?!

Surely you have wasted all your energy efficient installs so far if your windows have gaps in them letting in drafts?!

You've spent time and lots of money insulating the walls, while sitting there with gaps letting drafts and moisture into the house?!

As one once said... *Shakes head in dismay*