Orange have Sold my 'Non-Debt'

Pont

Anoneemoose wrote: »

You said in your OP, that you called to ask about 'deals' and when theu couldn't offer you anything, asked for your PAC. This is classed as enquiring about an upgrade.
QUOTE]

Are you saying that when I asked for a cheaper deal, and they couldn't offer me one, this was identified as an 'upgrade' enquiry? If this is the case it beggars belief!

Nonetheless, it is still the case that the PAC was issued and given to T-Mobile within the time frame.

Anoneemoose

Pont wrote: »

Anoneemoose wrote: »

You said in your OP, that you called to ask about 'deals' and when theu couldn't offer you anything, asked for your PAC. This is classed as enquiring about an upgrade.
QUOTE]

Are you saying that when I asked for a cheaper deal, and they couldn't offer me one, this was identified as an 'upgrade' enquiry? If this is the case it beggars belief!

Nonetheless, it is still the case that the PAC was issued and given to T-Mobile within the time frame.

Yes. Any new deal discussed at the end of a contract is classed as an 'upgrade'....has been the case with all networks forever as far as I know.

I appreciate what you're saying about the PAC being given to T-Mob, but was it actually used? If they gave you a new number there was no need whatsoever to utilise the PAC so I suspect it expired. That's what you need to establish before blaming Orange.

lulubelle41

Pont wrote: »

A. I am really unhappy about having my credit rating trashed in the meantime.

Just so you know there is somewhere to go regarding your credit rating -

This is a response I had from The Information Commissioner's Office when I contacted them about the affect of my credit rating regarding a rather large outstanding bill - from Orange funnily enough. I think it is self explanatory and hope it helps.

"I understand, from the information you have provided, that you have received a mobile phone bill from your mobile telephone provider, Orange, and that you dispute the amount of that bill. As such, you have complained to Orange and require information in relation to how you may insure your credit rating is not affected by this bill until your complaint is resolved.

In the event that the outstanding amount is inaccurate, Orange should not record that information on your credit reference file.

The reason for this is because principle 4 of the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA) provides that personal information must be accurate and, where necessary, kept up to date. As such, in the event that Orange disclose inaccurate information to the credit reference agencies, you may, after requesting that Orange amend that information, raise a complaint to the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO).

For further information in relation to principle 4, and for information on how you may access your credit reference file, please visit our website at the following links:

http://www.ico.org.uk/for_organisations/data_protection/the_guide/information_standards/principle_4

http://www.ico.org.uk/Global/faqs/~/media/documents/library/Data_Protection/Practical_application/credit_explained_leaflet_2005.ashx#page=14

In order to raise a complaint to our office in relation to inaccurate information which may be recorded about you, we would ask that, in the first instance, you raise your complaint directly to Orange in writing and allow a period of 28 days for Orange to respond to your complaint.

In the event that you do not receive a response to any complaint you may make, or you are dissatisfied with any response to a complaint you may make, you may then raise your complaint to our office. When raising a complaint to our office we would ask that you complete our complaint form and provide a copy of any complaint that you may make and any response that you may receive to your complaint.

For further information on how to raise a complaint to our office, please visit our website at the following link:

http://www.ico.org.uk/complaints/handling

Anoneemoose

lulubelle41 wrote: »

Just so you know there is somewhere to go regarding your credit rating -

This is a response I had from The Information Commissioner's Office when I contacted them about the affect of my credit rating regarding a rather large outstanding bill - from Orange funnily enough. I think it is self explanatory and hope it helps.

"I understand, from the information you have provided, that you have received a mobile phone bill from your mobile telephone provider, Orange, and that you dispute the amount of that bill. As such, you have complained to Orange and require information in relation to how you may insure your credit rating is not affected by this bill until your complaint is resolved.

In the event that the outstanding amount is inaccurate, Orange should not record that information on your credit reference file.

The reason for this is because principle 4 of the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA) provides that personal information must be accurate and, where necessary, kept up to date. As such, in the event that Orange disclose inaccurate information to the credit reference agencies, you may, after requesting that Orange amend that information, raise a complaint to the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO).

For further information in relation to principle 4, and for information on how you may access your credit reference file, please visit our website at the following links:

http://www.ico.org.uk/for_organisations/data_protection/the_guide/information_standards/principle_4

http://www.ico.org.uk/Global/faqs/~/media/documents/library/Data_Protection/Practical_application/credit_explained_leaflet_2005.ashx#page=14

In order to raise a complaint to our office in relation to inaccurate information which may be recorded about you, we would ask that, in the first instance, you raise your complaint directly to Orange in writing and allow a period of 28 days for Orange to respond to your complaint.

In the event that you do not receive a response to any complaint you may make, or you are dissatisfied with any response to a complaint you may make, you may then raise your complaint to our office. When raising a complaint to our office we would ask that you complete our complaint form and provide a copy of any complaint that you may make and any response that you may receive to your complaint.

For further information on how to raise a complaint to our office, please visit our website at the following link:

http://www.ico.org.uk/complaints/handling

We haven't actually established whether the op's bill is correct yet though and if it is, the above is irrelevant to this situation (however useful for others potentially). I suspect OP's Orange bill is correct based on the most recent info provided by OP regarding T-Mob not using his old Orange number.

In addition, I believe that Orange have agreed to remove all adverse data anyway for OP. His issue now is what he can claim for losses because of the adverse data being there in the first place.

Pont

Anoneemoose wrote: »

We haven't actually established whether the op's bill is correct yet though and if it is, the above is irrelevant to this situation (however useful for others potentially). I suspect OP's Orange bill is correct based on the most recent info provided by OP regarding T-Mob not using his old Orange number.

In addition, I believe that Orange have agreed to remove all adverse data anyway for OP. His issue now is what he can claim for losses because of the adverse data being there in the first place.

I don't know if T-Mobile used the PAC Code or not. They were given it by me after which the nuisance calls were mentioned. I would have assumed that they used the PAC Code and then changed my number.

I've just been having a search but can't find the information I had located before. It was along the lines that if I expressly informed Orange that I was cancelling (which I did) the PAC Code use/non-use becomes irrelevant anyway.

However, bearing in mind lulubelle41's post (thank you), wouldn't Orange have had a duty of care to investigate this further before trashing my credit rating?

In all honesty, I would have paid up the £56 if I'd have known about it. It's cost me at least 10 X this sum in time and effort attempting to sort this mess out! Have got to admit though there is a big part of me that wants to continue to challenge this situation as I believe it to be wrong in principle. Compared to the horror stories of others this is small fry.

However, how could I have addressed this situation any differently when I did everything correctly? The first I knew of anything potentially being a problem was when I started receiving threatening letters from Moorcroft in October!

Would you think that by Orange offering to right off the 'debt', and to remove the defaults from my credit rating, they are perhaps considering that they are wrong in this case?

Btw, 'he' is a 'she' ;-)

Oli.s

There's no way tmobile would use the PAC code to transfer your number when they new full well they were giving you a new number, it would be a complete waste of both yours and their time.

Also whenever I have been issued a pac code it's explained that if it's not used the cancellation becomes void and the contract simply continues. Part of the reason for this is if you don't use the pac code within the 30 days and the network were to cut you off anyway you would lose the phone number.

Sounds like tmobile didn't need the pac code as you wanted a new number, you might have told them it but they didn't use it because they didn't need to. This meant your orange contract continued hence the bills.

I think at this stage if orange are willing to wipe the debt and restore your credit history you should snap there hand off because if not I strongly suspect they will produce evidence to support the fact they told you about the PAC process and will also produce evidence the code wasn't used and your number remained active on orange continuing your contract.

Pont

Oli.s wrote: »

There's no way tmobile would use the PAC code to transfer your number when they new full well they were giving you a new number, it would be a complete waste of both yours and their time.

Also whenever I have been issued a pac code it's explained that if it's not used the cancellation becomes void and the contract simply continues. Part of the reason for this is if you don't use the pac code within the 30 days and the network were to cut you off anyway you would lose the phone number.

Sounds like tmobile didn't need the pac code as you wanted a new number, you might have told them it but they didn't use it because they didn't need to. This meant your orange contract continued hence the bills.

I think at this stage if orange are willing to wipe the debt and restore your credit history you should snap there hand off because if not I strongly suspect they will produce evidence to support the fact they told you about the PAC process and will also produce evidence the code wasn't used and your number remained active on orange continuing your contract.

What we're all second guessing at the moment (me included) is that Orange EE gave me the PAC Code, I passed it on to T-Mobile and T-Mobile EE didn't use it. If this is the case where does this leave me? I have no idea what T-Mobile did with the PAC Code!

I didn't request a new number. When I mentioned the nuisance calls, T-Mobile offered me a new number.

All I'm saying is, if this was the case, how could I remedy a situaion I knew nothing about?

Anoneemoose

Pont wrote: »

What we're all second guessing at the moment (me included) is that Orange EE gave me the PAC Code, I passed it on to T-Mobile and T-Mobile EE didn't use it. If this is the case where does this leave me? I have no idea what T-Mobile did with the PAC Code!

I didn't request a new number. When I mentioned the nuisance calls, T-Mobile offered me a new number.

All I'm saying is, if this was the case, how could I remedy a situaion I knew nothing about?

You need to establish this first. Maybe phone T-Mob and ask if they ever ported your number across from Orange (as I suspect, not). If they haven't then Orange haven't done anything wrong.

They send a letter and tell you on the call that if the PAC is not used, it will expire and your contract will continue. In fact, if I look hard enough, I will probably able to find the letter I received!

As I say, if the above is how I think it is, then I don't believe you would get anywhere from pursuing it. As I said, Orange were correct in billing you. The reason they will have agreed to clear the balance and your credit file is because it will be easier (work load wise) and cheaper for them than to go through the CISAS thing.

I also wanted to say, I am not saying this to be on Orange's side, just because I worked for them! I am trying to help by 'guessing' what has happened using the info you have given and my pretty in depth insight in to the systems I worked with every day for years (and years)!!

Pont

Thanks Anoneemoose for your responses - much appreciated.

I'll check this out with T-Mobile. I would think if they used the PAC Code correctly - Orange has screwed up.

If T-Mobile didn't use the PAC Code - they screwed up!

Nonetheless, Orange were supposed to send all of their evidence to CISAS by last Friday which will then be forwarded on to me. I'm very interested in reading what they say - could cast some light on what's happened.

Anoneemoose

Pont wrote: »

Thanks Anoneemoose for your responses - much appreciated.

I'll check this out with T-Mobile. I would think if they used the PAC Code correctly - Orange has screwed up.

If T-Mobile didn't use the PAC Code - they screwed up!

Nonetheless, Orange were supposed to send all of their evidence to CISAS by last Friday which will then be forwarded on to me. I'm very interested in reading what they say - could cast some light on what's happened.

Definitely. I would be interested to know!

I believe it costs a few hundred pounds for them (Orange) just for CISAS taking on the case. They (Orange) will probably have looked at your account and seen that you hadn't used the account after the PAC expiry so just settled because of that. In addition, although the (Orange) customer service reps might not have access to the T-Mob systems, their legal people might. Not sure if they deal with all 3 brand legal queries.

Keep us posted!