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HS2, is it right for the UK?
Comments
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Yes, the benefits to the UK are far too great to ignore.
Fair enough. I can understand that. There's a lot of costs that I'd rather not pay, but I end up paying anyway.grizzly1911 wrote: »I'd rather not have the costs (best guesses) in the first place.
I just wish you had said that earlier, before I took the time to address your other arguments.0 -
No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.Horse and cart got things about but we still invented the car.
I agree I wouldn't say times are too bad, but is faster in anyway a bad thing?
a car naturally replaced thehhorse and cart as it was both cheaper to run and better
HS2 may be better that it will be faster and newer but also a lot more costly
So the question should be more on the lines of ...would you like to pay £100 more for your ticket to save 15 minutes rather than pretending its simply an option of fast or slow and nothing else.
As someone who does London to Birmingham and back via yhe current train system I would say its fine and just about acceptable cos wise. I certainly don't want ticket prices going up from here bor do I want to see the nation spend £50B paying into a new line that only a very few people like me use.0 -
Fair enough. I can understand that. There's a lot of costs that I'd rather not pay, but I end up paying anyway.
I just wish you had said that earlier, before I took the time to address your other arguments.
Helps inform the debate and you have made some valid points which were interesting.
I am just not convinced from the arguments for such an open ended commitment."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.shortchanged wrote: »What are the ticket prices going to be?
No doubt that average joe and his family will not be able to afford tickets for these trains.
The worst part is that everyone will be paying for the line via general taxation but only a very few people who travel from birmingham to london and back regularly will marginally benefit
Even if you assume everyone in Birmingham will use the line (the vast majority never will) the £50B or so price tagworks out to 'just' £50,000 per citizen of Birmingham an absolutely absurd figure
The train line at £10B would be difficult to justify at £40-60B its sheer lunacy0 -
No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.I think it's almost become a taboo to talk about investing in infrastructure, which is a shame really.
This has a good cost to benefits ratio and it's investing into something that will hopefully still be around for many years to come.
I say that government should stop doing all these case studies and start building the thing. Look how quickly China built their high speed railway.
Don't be fooled by bridges to nowhere type infrastructure
China is a vast country nearly 100x the area of England.
What makes sense for them doesn't necessarily make sense for much smallee much more dense England.
Actually think for a moment what the costs actually are. £50B+ is more money than all the homes in Birmingham. How can you justify a transport link that costs more than the city it is linking to?0 -
Can someone break down this amazing cost and explain why the costs are so high ?0
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No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.I know some people won't like this but the transport of the future is the car not the train.
Even today if there are two or more people traveling we opt more oftwn to rebt a car for a day than use the train. Its quicker its a lot cheaper and its more comfortable overall
Going forward cars have nore headroom to improve than trains.
Eg google self drive tech0 -
No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.John_Pierpoint wrote: »Can someone break down this amazing cost and explain why the costs are so high ?
I can explain a small part of the cost increase.
Boris Johnson's father was originally not within the range set to qualify for compensation (loss in value on your property).
But then he complained.
Now, remarkably, the distance has been expanded so he now is in range!
Funny that. Trebles all round at the club the night that news came through.0 -
No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.I know some people won't like this but the transport of the future is the car not the train.
Even today if there are two or more people traveling we opt more oftwn to rebt a car for a day than use the train. Its quicker its a lot cheaper and its more comfortable overall
Going forward cars have nore headroom to improve than trains.
Eg google self drive tech
Yes.
We already have millions of cars. They are getting more efficient by the year. Amazingly, they generally go where you need to get to, and from where you want to begin your journey.
I wouldn't mind my car journey taking 6 hours to London if I can have a kip in the back during it
We should invest massively in self drive and sell it to the rest of the world.
It's much more sexy than HS20 -
No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.John_Pierpoint wrote: »Can someone break down this amazing cost and explain why the costs are so high ?
£50B line
100 miles
Just...... £312 million. ....per km
Why is the cost so high? Its just the nature of one off construction.
Similar reason to why the recently announced nuclear plant is going to cost $25B vs the same built in china costing less than $7B. Volume and experience makes it a lot cheaper and built on time and budget. However unloke China we don't need 100 nuvlear plants or 100 HS2so its pay absurd sums or make the best of what we have0
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