HS2, is it right for the UK?

shortchanged_2

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24721214

Following on from a thread Graham started a few months ago and seeing there seems to be lots of propaganda floating around from both sides of the camp, what do MSE'ers feel about HS2? Good idea and beneficial to the UK economy or would the money be better spent elsewhere on other projects and/or upgrading the current network?

ILW

No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.

Do any of the ministers involved have any financial interest in the scheme going ahead?

shortchanged_2

No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.

ILW wrote: »

Do any of the ministers involved have any financial interest in the scheme going ahead?

Of course not. :whistle:

Percy1983

Yes, the benefits to the UK are far too great to ignore.

The problems it would cause in upgrading the current system far outweigh the problems of making a new line.

The sooner the better as far as I am concerned.

shortchanged_2

No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.

Are the current travel times from the main cities like Leeds, Manchester etc really that bad?

Bristol to London is only just over 11/2 hours and set to improve with electrification.

Personally I don't think that the current main intercity travel times are actually that bad.

Percy1983

Yes, the benefits to the UK are far too great to ignore.

shortchanged wrote: »

Are the current travel times from the main cities like Leeds, Manchester etc really that bad?

Bristol to London is only just over 11/2 hours and set to improve with electrification.

Personally I don't think that the current main intercity travel times are actually that bad.

Horse and cart got things about but we still invented the car.

I agree I wouldn't say times are too bad, but is faster in anyway a bad thing?

shortchanged_2

No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.

Percy1983 wrote: »

Horse and cart got things about but we still invented the car.

I agree I wouldn't say times are too bad, but is faster in anyway a bad thing?

What are the ticket prices going to be?

No doubt that average joe and his family will not be able to afford tickets for these trains.

dotdash79

I would prefer to see some cross country express trains Liverpool to Leeds is at least 2 hours.

Links to London are fine, travel between other cities is poor. However new train lines are welcome in any form.

wotsthat

I'm broadly in favour of HS2. It'll be of benefit to the North and will help the UK to be less London-centric. There's possibly going to be station near me and journey time to London will take c45mins which is about half the current time.

Almost as important as the time is the ease of travel. Something as simple as just how convenient a place is to get to can make the difference between investing and not.

Whether it's worth the money is anyone's guess.

Don't see why the current system can't be upgraded too. It's a national embarrassment.

shortchanged_2

No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.

dotdash79 wrote: »

I would prefer to see some cross country express trains Liverpool to Leeds is at least 2 hours.

Yes I agree with this sentiment with Leeds to Liverpool only around 70 miles in distance, it shouldn't really take much more than an hour. That is a poor service linking 2 major cities.

Routes into London are already pretty good when you can get from London to Leeds which is more than twice the distance in not much more time.

michaels

I don't feel able to judge the economic case and I'm afraid I don't trust any of the players to give an unbiased view.

Is the issue the speed or is it the capacity?

Are there other ways to provide the capacity (and possibly some of the speed increases) that are cheaper/less disruptive?

How much of the busines smodel depends on other disruptive technologies/events not 'moving the goal posts' - things like:
- Fuel possibly becoming prohibitively expensive for private cars/aircraft,
- Self driving vehicles possibly hugely increasing road capacity (and possibly speeds),
- Video conferencing / virtual reality reducing the requirement for travel,
- Other disruptive transport technologies like the proposed California Vacuum tube, maglev etc
- Scottish Independence reducing/increasing travel volumes

Given the huge uncertainties the scale of infrastructure investment seems to be high risk in a way that an incremental approach would not be.