PCN at my own flat

nas786_2

Dear All,

I'm a new user here and I have read many threads in the forums about various scenarios, but have not been able to find a response to my circumstances so I'm hoping someone can help here.

I live in a block of flats which has a car park with an allocated space for each flat. I am renting my flat and the allocated car parking space is part of the lease. The car park is gated and requires a security code for entry. We are required to display permits in our cars. There are signs up around the car park.

I was sent a NTK in the post telling me about a PCN I got on the 3.9.13 for not displaying my permit but there was no PCN initially attached to my car on this date. My car is rarely used, so it may be that it went unattended for several days and that someone might have taken the initial PCN off my car. I was not aware of the PCN being given to me until I got the letter in the post. My permit may have fallen off the dash/windscreen, but as I do not go down to my car on a daily basis, I would not have seen this until several days later.

My question is where to go from here? This is most frustrating and something I could do without having to deal with. But I wanted to post here and get some help for myself and other residents too.

I have not made any appeal yet to the PPC and wanted the help of members here to give me some guidance as to the best way to proceed. Some say to simply ignore the NTK and any further notices and others say that appealing and eventually going to POPLA is best as it shows that you have made attempts to appeal and at the least the incurs charges for the PPC.

I find it unfair that I parked in my own space yet because my permit might have fallen down and I hadn't noticed is still valid grounds for them to give you a PCN. If this is the case and my car is only used rarely, why did I not receive further PCN's on subsequent days? I have not trespassed as this parking space is part of my tenancy agreement/lease, I have not stopped others from parking in the space as this is my allocated space anyway, and the PPC have not lost any financial gain or "pre-estimate of loss" as most people word it.

Please help me to sort this out and in turn be able to help other residents in the flats.

Many thanks in advance to everyone and of course do let me know if you need further information.

Stroma

You are right there is no loss, how can there be when you as the leaseholder haven't lost anything?

You appeal like this

Dear Parking ticketers

Thank you for the invoice xxxxx dated xxxxx left on my vehicle, as the registered keeper I deny liability to your company as you don't have the necessary permissions to pursue myself on a parking bay attached to the property. If you believe you have the permission please send me the contract that I signed.

Also as I believe there is loss to you, can you please supply a detailed description of your pre estimate of loss. I look forward to taking this to popla should you reject my appeal.

Name (printed)

nas786_2

Hi Stroma, I've noticed you've helped a lot of other people on the forums. Big thank you.

It's UK CPS. They are BPA registered.

I don't have a PCN as there wasn't one attached to my car. I do have a NTK and this was the first I heard about the PCN. According to the NTK, the reason I was given a PCN was for being "observed without a valid permit or authority"

Like I say, it may be been that the permit fell down from the dash/windscreen so was not on display. But how can I be expected to check my car every 5 minutes to make sure that the permit is still there?!

Where I'm confused is that because of the signs, they say that a contract is being made by me accepting to park there. So this enters contract law territory. Should I simply ignore the charge letters they send me or actually make an appeal? After reading up through POPLA, they say that a permit falling down is not valid reasons for an appeal. But there are other things such as the PPC not losing any income/earnings as a result of me parking in my own space. This is a big grey area!

nas786_2

Stroma wrote: »

You are right there is no loss, how can there be when you as the leaseholder haven't lost anything?

You appeal like this

Dear Parking ticketers

Thank you for the invoice xxxxx dated xxxxx left on my vehicle, as the registered keeper I deny liability to your company as you don't have the necessary permissions to pursue myself on a parking bay attached to the property. If you believe you have the permission please send me the contract that I signed.

Also as I believe there is loss to you, can you please supply a detailed description of your pre estimate of loss. I look forward to taking this to popla should you reject my appeal.

Name (printed)

They are contracted by the estate managers and being a rented flat, their permission is from the managers and leaseholders. What about their signs? I've checked measurements etc and they do meet the required regulations so I have no reason for appeal based on these grounds. Do I still have an appeal with POPLA even if my permit might have fallen down? POPLA state that this isn't valid grounds for an appeal.

Stroma

That is the point, what authority do you need to park in your own reserved space? Exactly none! UKCPS are well known on here, they are in the aos and can get details from the dvla.

Send the appeal in add what you feel is relevant, it's likely that it will be refused, if they do that then popla is the next step. To be honest they'd be crazy to reject as the pre estimate of loss is a winner at popla 100% of the time.

And thanks for the thanks, I like helping on here, together with the other regulars on here

Stroma

nas786 wrote: »

They are contracted by the estate managers and being a rented flat, their permission is from the managers and leaseholders. What about their signs? I've checked measurements etc and they do meet the required regulations so I have no reason for appeal based on these grounds. Do I still have an appeal with POPLA even if my permit might have fallen down? POPLA state that this isn't valid grounds for an appeal.

You don't need a permit to park in your own land, even if it's rented. The appeal to popla won't be on that for the most part in any case. See my post above

nas786_2

Stroma wrote: »

You don't need a permit to park in your own land, even if it's rented. The appeal to popla won't be on that for the most part in any case. See my post above

Even though we were issued permits and given notification about and told to abide by it?

Stroma

No! Who the hell do these people think they are? Understand you can opt out of this poxy scheme, they are in fact trespassing when they enter your bay.

nas786_2

Stroma wrote: »

That is the point, what authority do you need to park in your own reserved space? Exactly none! UKCPS are well known on here, they are in the aos and can get details from the dvla.

Send the appeal in add what you feel is relevant, it's likely that it will be refused, if they do that then popla is the next step. To be honest they'd be crazy to reject as the pre estimate of loss is a winner at popla 100% of the time.

But I thought that POPLA would enforce the charge as my permit wasn't on display. It clearly states on their website that this does not count as mitigating circumstances.

Are you certain about the pre-estimate of loss being a certain winner? I feel like I'm clutching at straws to find any reason to get these scammers off my back

Stroma

Popla cannot enforce anything! They are not an authority and their decisions are not binding. Also they do not do mitigating circumstances so don't use them.

And yes the pre estimate of loss is a winner, read the last 10 pages or so of this thread
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4488337

nas786_2

Stroma wrote: »

No! Who the hell do these people think they are? Understand you can opt out of this poxy scheme, they are in fact trespassing when they enter your bay.

So how can they give us PCN's? Of course it's my space so not trespassed as my own car has not stopped myself from parking there. The landlord has not lost any money as a result of this.

But the signs in the car park state that permits must be displayed so surely as part of contract law by parking I've entered this contract as stated on sign?