United Utilities court action for 2013/14 bill

emmaf01

I'm desperate for any ideas on how to sort this out or fight it some how. I don't want a CCJ over this when I've sorted my debts out without getting one.

We had previously paid out of benefits we get but this stopped a year ago without us being notified.

When I discovered we weren't still paying I rang up to sort it out. UU said they couldn't put us back on and arranged a payment card even though I said we couldn't really manage to pay a large amount monthly. She suggested I ring the DWP direct and get them to organise direct payments.

I rang the DWP and the woman said she would send a message to the right department who would organise it.

By August it hadn't been done. A letter came advising us that if we were having difficulties to speak to the CAB. I was seeing someone anyway about my ESA and he said they had a scheme set up which would help. I needed to do an income and expenditure form and return it to them with water bill details.

Before I could get this back to them I received court documents saying they were taking us to court for this years bill. It isn't even up until the 31st March 2014. How am I supposed to fight this?

I have tried to get in touch with the CAB person but have heard nothing back. I gave them all the details but nothing as yet and UU can get a judgement on the 6th Oct I think.

Is there anything I can do? I rang UU but they said accept the CCJ and then you can pay through benefits again. I didn't get a CCJ before and I was paying like that. Why have they done this when I was trying to sort it out?

UU eve suggested "just putting it on a credit card or borrowing otherwise you'll get a CCJ"- I'm so annoyed.

Cardew

'It isn't even up until the 31st March 2014.'

A water bill is payable for the year in advance.

e.g. a bill for 01 April 2013 to 31 March 2014 is due payment on 01 April 2014. They normally allow it paid in two instalments payable 01 April and 01 Oct. Unless you pay by DD/water card.

You will get better advice in the 'debt free' forum on MSE about payments from Social Security.

mart.vader

Is any of the following applicable to you ? I'm "surprised" that UU did not bring this to your attention.

http://www.unitedutilities.com/documents/Code_of_practice_debt_recovery.pdf

Dedicated support

Depending on your circumstances, you may qualify for one of our special support schemes, which could help you clear your debt more quickly. You can find out more about each of these schemes at our website, unitedutilities.com, or by calling our assistance team (see contact details on right). Here’s a quick summary of what we offer: Arrears Allowance Scheme: If you’ve already built up a lot of debt, this scheme could help you get back in the black. For every £1 you pay, we’ll put in £1 too, helping you to clear your debt twice as quickly. To benefit from this scheme, you must meet certain criteria, and be ready and willing to take on your debt by sticking to the payment plan we agree with you.

United Utilities Trust Fund:
If you are in real financial difficulty and have nowhere else to turn, you may qualify for a grant from this charity trust fund to pay off all or part of your bill or debt – giving you the fresh start you need.

Water Direct:
If you are claiming income-related Employment and Support Allowance, Jobseekers Allowance or Pension Credit, you can ask the Department for Work and Pensions to pay your water bill directly to us, out of your benefit – saving you the hassle of having to remember. Call us to find out more."

samsmoot

UU can only get a judgement if the judge accepts their claim. Therefore you have to make sure you defend it. It's too late in the day for asking for the claim to be struck out so you will have to attend the court on the 6th - I assume there is a hearing then?

Don't be worried about appearing at the County Court - most judges are kind and reasonable and approachable. Simply tell the truth - which shows you have done all you can to pay and to sort it out.

Right now you need to put in a Defence - even if it's just a letter to the judge. You should also disagree with the amount they say is owed. Contrary to what others may think you only owe for arrears - and not for any future charges. So if they want to try and convince the judge that you owe money for services you haven't yet used, then let them. They may or may not be successful.

I assume you have the Charity Application in your hands? Then complete it and send it off quickly. Tell the court in your letter that you have done this.

You should ask the court, by letter and when you get there, to allow time for the Charitable Trust to give an answer. Also, you should make an offer of payment to UU at the same rate it would be on benefit - £3.40 or whatever.

Tell the court and the water that court, according to OFWAT, is supposed to be a last resort for those who won't pay, as opposed to those who can't pay.

And what explanation is there for the DWP stopping the deductions? Mention it - or state that it's a mystery with no explanation.

At the end of the day this seems to be able to be settled without a CCJ being made. This is the angle you will be coming from: you wanted to pay; were paying; an official error made that cease; you got advice from the CAB; was in the process of completing an application when the claim arrived; you got back to the CAB but was left hanging.

If you do attend the hearing the judge will very likely not bring in a judgement there and then. The hearing may be for 'Directions', where both parties will be invited to submit further evidence for a later hearing. This will at least give you some time to sort something out.

Just remember: if you are actually paying the bill off there's no need for court - so can you start doing that? Courts like to see everyone acting in good faith, so you should.

If you don't go to the hearing you will get done - so go - and have a go!

samsmoot

I was just having a think about this and a few questions occurred to me:

Have UU actually made a claim yet?
Have you had any paperwork from a court?
If so, did you send any back?

If no claim has yet been made you need to act quickly before one is.

emmaf01 wrote: »

Why have they done this when I was trying to sort it out?

My thoughts on these people are well known on this board so if you really want to know a bit more you should look on my profile for previous posts. Also check out mart.vader's qualified opinions whilst you're at it.

emmaf01

We got the claim through from Northampton Bulk Centre- issued 2nd September. I did the Acknowledgement of Service on line which gives us until the 6th October to defend- I think? My date counting is ok but I'm seriously ill at the moment so if I'm wonky let me know.

The CAB were looking to set up the arrears repayment scheme where UU match what we pay and also to do an application to the Trust Fund possibly. I also handed them copies of the court docs to see if they could help with this as my medical help said they could do something. They got my ESA sorted- income based support group? Now I can't get hold of my caseworker and haven't been able to for three weeks. Which is why I'm trying to see what I can do myself.:)

I have fought to get my finances back and my credit rating back after my health caused everything to crash and burn. UU are aware I'm disabled. I have been in touch with them repeatedly since I found out they were not being paid. They have chosen to do this knowing I would be classed as vulnerable. They said on he phone this is not relevant.

I just would like to try not to get a CCJ. A bit of breathing space so the CAB could work something out for a payment plan. It's not that I won't pay them- I've been trying to ensure they get paid for months.

HappyMJ

If you pay it off in full before the court hearing then your credit will not be affected at all. You have about 6 months from the time they start action to the eventual court date....so my advice...start saving and pay it off.

emmaf01

If I can get a defence to put in I will happily start paying it off asap- and you're right, it will be gone before March 2014.

But if I can't find a "valid" and credible defence to put in in about two days, they can get a default judgement against me.

Can I ask for some sort of extension to get proper legal advice from the CAB or anyone? I think the AoS is all I can realistically get.

Has anyone got any pointers for a defence? Once again, I'm not trying to avoid paying, just trying to avoid a CCJ and then paying anyway.

samsmoot

emmaf01 wrote: »

If I can get a defence to put in I will happily start paying it off asap- and you're right, it will be gone before March 2014.

But if I can't find a "valid" and credible defence to put in in about two days, they can get a default judgement against me.

Can I ask for some sort of extension to get proper legal advice from the CAB or anyone? I think the AoS is all I can realistically get.

Has anyone got any pointers for a defence? Once again, I'm not trying to avoid paying, just trying to avoid a CCJ and then paying anyway.

Doesn't matter what you say in your defence as long as you get one in. You could state what you have said on here - but you have to say something. No Defence = Instant Judgement so you can't afford to leave it.

Say you dispute the amount of the debt, state how you've been paying, that it wasn't your fault that TPDs stopped at the DWP, that you have been relying on third party (CAB) advice and help. Say you have tried to come to an arrangement but the water company jumped the gun.

You can always say more later, but for now you have to get that Defence in pronto!

mart.vader

emmaf01,

What you need for a "valid and credible" defence has been largely covered by Samsmoot above. I can sympathise, as it's hard to think straight when you're ill, so I've done a rough draft of a defence for you.

i.e. Defence:

1) I have no intention to avoid paying this bill. I was paying the water bill from my benefits but the DWP stopped this a year ago without notifying me. As soon as I found out, I contacted United Utilities to sort it out.

2) However, as there were arrears on the account, the payment that the Water Co suggested was now completely unaffordable.

3) The Water Co suggested that I ring the DWP direct and get them to organise direct payments.

4) I rang the DWP and they agreed to organise a direct payment from my benefit. However, by August 2012, the DWP had not set this up.

5) We were advised that, as we were having difficulties, we needed to speak to the Citizens Advice Bureau . The CAB told me/us that they had a scheme set up which would help. I needed to do an income and expenditure form and return it to them with water bill details.

6) Before I could get the income and expenditure form back to them, I received the court documents from the Water Company.

7) According to OFWAT, Court is supposed to be a last resort for those who won't pay, however, I have been paying and will continue to pay, via my benefits.

8) I have been unable to contact the CAB person, although I have returned the income and expenditure form to them.

9) The Water Co have even suggested paying the water bill by using a credit card, but I think this would only result in my getting deeper in debt.

10) If the Court grant me an extension of time, the CAB can help me set up the United Utilities arrears repayment scheme where the Water Co match what we pay.

11) I also intend to make an application to the United Utilities Charitable Trust Fund, which was set up to assist persons like myself, on benefits. This is from the United Utilities website:

"If you are in real financial difficulty and have nowhere else to turn, you may qualify for a grant from this charity trust fund to pay off all or part of your bill or debt – giving you the fresh start you need."

12) I do not know why United Utilities have chosen to take this precipitous action when

a) they are fully aware that I am disabled and seriously ill at this time, and they would class me as a "vulnerable customer".

b) the only reason the payments ceased before, was due to an error by the DWP, and I have applied to their Arrears Repayment Scheme, and have applied to their Charitable Trust Fund for assistance.

NB This is rough only, you may wish to word it better !

HappyMJ

As above...perfect...