Buyer asking for postage refund

RHemmings

plumface wrote: »

How do you know what the sellers TOTAL postage costs were? (and no, i'm not talking about the cost of the coffee being included )

How do you know what the postage costs are when an item is "free p&p"

I am not out for an argument, i just find it befuddling!
A buyer will complain about being ripped off if the stamp price shows a lower amount than what they had paid for the p&p element.
A buyer will buy the same item with free p&p, for the same total cost and will not complain.
I have yet to see a buyer on any forum complain they have been ripped off by the postage costs on a free p&p sale.
Item £4, p&p charge £1 (actual stamp price £1) total to buyer £5 = 5 stars
Item £5, p&p charge £0 (actual stamp price £1) total to buyer £5 = 5 stars
Item £1, p&p charge £4 (actual stamp price £1) total to buyer £5 = RIP OFF

Why oh why?

Because I know that an envelope doesn't cost £2.20.

I think the current problem is because some sellers have come to see p&p costs not as p&p costs, but the 'part of the purchase price that they don't pay fees on'. While many buyers continued to see them as p&p costs. With ebay's new policy, this should end. And if buyers complain that they're paying more fees - well then if people weren't defrauding ebay by bumping up the p&p costs to save fees, then they probably wouldn't haven't bought in the new policy.

campdave

plumface wrote: »

Item £4, p&p charge £1 (actual stamp price £1) total to buyer £5 = 5 stars
Item £5, p&p charge £0 (actual stamp price £1) total to buyer £5 = 5 stars
Item £1, p&p charge £4 (actual stamp price £1) total to buyer £5 = RIP OFF

Why oh why?

Fees on all options the same, so why take the chance of low DSR? (and fees may be lower on free post option if you qualify for TRS discount).

Flyonthewall

plumface wrote: »

How do you know what the sellers TOTAL postage costs were? (and no, i'm not talking about the cost of the coffee being included )

How do you know what the postage costs are when an item is "free p&p"

I am not out for an argument, i just find it befuddling!
A buyer will complain about being ripped off if the stamp price shows a lower amount than what they had paid for the p&p element.
A buyer will buy the same item with free p&p, for the same total cost and will not complain.
I have yet to see a buyer on any forum complain they have been ripped off by the postage costs on a free p&p sale.
Item £4, p&p charge £1 (actual stamp price £1) total to buyer £5 = 5 stars
Item £5, p&p charge £0 (actual stamp price £1) total to buyer £5 = 5 stars
Item £1, p&p charge £4 (actual stamp price £1) total to buyer £5 = RIP OFF

Why oh why?

I am a private seller. If as a private seller with no savings anywhere and sending first class I can - and do - charge less than £4 for posting an item then others should be able to do the same, especially business sellers. Packaging doesn't cost that much and, for this example, actual postage is only a £1.

If they're charging £1 postage and paying that it's fair enough, you can see it's what they've paid. If it's £0 then you can't tell how much postage they are adding on within the item price. If it's £4 it's clearly more than it's cost them. So that makes it a rip-off.

I know fees don't just vanish and it takes time to list, but it says P&P not P&P&F or P&P&F&T. For business sellers, the payment for time and consideration for fees should be within the item price and the profit you make on an item is your payment for that. For private sellers, anything you make is something back from what you paid, it's not up to the buyer to pay extra in P&P for your time in selling something you no longer want.

plumface

Flyonthewall wrote: »

I am a private seller. If as a private seller with no savings anywhere and sending first class I can - and do - charge less than £4 for posting an item then others should be able to do the same, especially business sellers. Packaging doesn't cost that much and, for this example, actual postage is only a £1.
Well, more fool you for charging less than cost, dont expect others to copy your insane business model.

If they're charging £1 postage and paying that it's fair enough, you can see it's what they've paid. If it's £0 then you can't tell how much postage they are adding on within the item price. If it's £4 it's clearly more than it's cost them. So that makes it a rip-off.
No it doesn't.
If the postage charge was, as you say £4 and it actually cost a lot less, how can this be a rip off if the total selling price was the same. You are still paying the same amount.The final delivered cost is the same, what the hell are you moaning about.You have not been ripped off.

I know fees don't just vanish and it takes time to list, but it says P&P not P&P&F or P&P&F&T. For business sellers, the payment for time and consideration for fees should be within the item price and the profit you make on an item is your payment for that. For private sellers, anything you make is something back from what you paid, it's not up to the buyer to pay extra in P&P for your time in selling something you no longer want.

Why should costs, directly associated with p&p be anywhere other than added onto the p&p costs?
Ebay ALLOW p&p costs to be added into the p&p costs, this includes your time. As a business my time IS my business and i CAN add this cost (should i want to) onto the p&p cost.

Still, at the end of the day, if you think you are being ripped off by paying the same total amount for an item with p&p costs than an item that is (not)free P&P then feel free.

Flyonthewall

plumface wrote: »

Well, more fool you for charging less than cost, dont expect others to copy your insane business model.

No it doesn't.
If the postage charge was, as you say £4 and it actually cost a lot less, how can this be a rip off if the total selling price was the same. You are still paying the same amount

Why should costs, directly associated with p&p be anywhere other than added onto the p&p costs?
Ebay ALLOW p&p costs to be added into the p&p costs, this includes your time. As a business my time IS my business and i CAN add this cost (should i want to) onto the p&p cost.

Still, at the end of the day, if you think you are being ripped off by paying the same total amount for an item with p&p costs than an item that is (not)free P&P then feel free.

You realise a business model requires a business, of which I do not have.

I never said I charged less than the cost, I said I could do it for less cost than that and as a private seller with no savings anywhere if I can do it for less than that cost so can others.

Not sure how it's "insane" to charge less than costs considering many businesses have been adding P&P into item price. Unless you mean not factoring the costs into it at all, in which case it'd be eating up any profit. Although as a private seller I don't have profit and I do factor the costs in to my start and P&P price.

P&P charge is supposed to be for the cost of posting and packaging so if that cost £1 postage and say at most £1 postage charging £4 is a rip off as it never cost that so you've been over charged. The end price is not the point.

If it's with the item cost you can't see what the postage is that they are adding on.

Say there's 2 businesses both selling exactly the same item and both can package and send at the same price. Both charging £5 with free postage. One may be thinking I'll include postage at £4 so that gives me £1 per item. The other may be thinking, postage is £1 included so that's £4 per item. The customer never knows.

Now if they both added postage and reduced the item cost, you can see how they work out the postage. Same item, same costs to them so why is one charging so much more for the same service? Knowing they're over charging for a service makes a big difference.

Whether realistically costs are within the P&P and selling at £1 with correct postage wouldn't make a profit doesn't matter to a customer. They know P&P shouldn't cost more than about £2 so their thought is the item is £1 and it should only be £2 postage, I'm being ripped off at £4 postage.

I know P&P does take time but how much is your time worth? What added cost should be put on to P&P to be considered fair? Personally, I see it as the profit made on each item is payment for your time and effort.

When it comes to buying I always consider the total overall costs. If they came to the same as in this example my decision would be based on feedback. Although if both good then I'd go for the one with either free or cheaper postage costs. Otherwise I would feel I was overpaying for postage because that's just how it appears considering you're told that's what it costs to post and you know it's not true.

King_Nothing

I've only occassionally sold on eBay, and have estimated postage on most of them, or had it as free if it was a BIN and incorporated it into the price. Few times I've overestimated for "postage", haven't heard anything back, must have sold to some people who aren't mercenary gits like the people on this thread are. Last thing I sold, I actually made a loss on the postage, as I'd underestimated it, did I go chasing the buyer for the extra £1.20? No.

You see an item, you see the shipping costs listed underneath, add that to how much you're willing to pay for the item, to get a total, don't like total cost? Don't buy simple as that.

I order lots of things on ebay, and before I confirm my bid or BIN, I check the postage costs, I don't care if it is listed at £10 postage, and actually costs them £3 to post it, as long as the price of the item plus postage is below what I'm willing to pay, I'll buy it. It's all a bit petty.

If someone came back to me, saying that I overcharged them on postage, I'd tell them to get lost, and if I'd overcharged them, why did they agree to buy it at the price I had set?

martindow

It really doesn't matter what sellers think and how they justify the charge they make.

What is important is how buyers react as they are the ones who leave leave feedback and decide on star ratings. If some buyers are upset by feeling overcharged for postage it is the seller who receives the punishment.

Whatever the seller's reasoning for their postage costs it seems a foolish strategy if it is likely to provoke bad feedback.