POPLA test

4consumerrights

I'm about to submit a personal cost notification of my own (on behalf of a family member) to UKPC after just receiving the Appeal allowed at POPLA today (posted on POPLA decisions).
This case involved disability discrimination and the blue badge allegedly not being displayed and I will pursue this to the small claims if necessary - the delicious irony being that my relative is a shareholder in the company that owns the land and will raise the issue at the next shareholders meeting.


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tospig wrote: »

DR+ have now sent me a 'Letter before referral for legal action' for a ticket I ignored back in April 2012!
(for newbies, the advice of 'ignore' was still relevant back then but not any more).

I'm fully aware that this is another empty threat and can safely ignore DR+, but I'm tempted now to start my own proceedings against DR+, UKPC and the management company of the block of flats for harassment. Has anyone done this before and can offer advice, and whether this approach will actually work?

Your case is even stronger in my opinion as it is where you live.

Do you rent the property or own the lease?
If rented - check your AST or if owned check what the lease states.
Was UKPC already there when you moved in?
The management company do not (in the majority of cases) own the freehold so has no proprietary interest and neither do UKPC.
The management company also according to UKPC's website receive 10% cashback on all parking charges received.

If you want to oust UKPC and take up the management - you will need to form a collective group with other residents and set up your own company as directors which can be done. The residents are then responsible for all maintenance issues etc.

Coupon-mad

tospig wrote: »

DR+ have now sent me a 'Letter before referral for legal action' for a ticket I ignored back in April 2012!
(for newbies, the advice of 'ignore' was still relevant back then but not any more).

Same with this poster and 3 or 4 others that I linked here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4847852

Interesting - but not overly of any concern to a registered keeper when it was a pre-POFA case. I suspect they are trawling their old lists for victims who will panic and pay. I would like to see everyone warning PPCs of a 'Personal Costs Notification' when first appealing fake PCNs - and in each letter after that - and have amended the NEWBIES thread to show that now. Imagine if fake PCNs were always met with a robust POPLA-friendly appeal and another 'PCN' counterclaim warning!

Umkomaas

I think it's high time this became a standard approach to PPCs - you put me to a load of trouble to prove you've incorrectly applied things and you WILL pay for it. Take notice!

Glad your new paragraph will now be included CM :T

tospig

I've decided to do a 'catch-all' letter to UKPC, DR+, Zenith and the management company of the flats that will hopefully stop all demands for payment. Is this an appropriate way to proceed, is my draft letter (below) good enough, is it worth cc-ing it to the DR+ & Zenith, and should I go into more detail regarding points of law?

Thoughts and comments welcome.

A summary of my situation:
I own my flat.
I have received quite a few tickets (can't remember how many) from UKPC for parking at the development. Some tickets were before POFA, some after. I have appealed a couple of the tickets, one of which went to POPLA and I won on GPEOL.

<my address>
04/01/2014

UKPC
<address>

Dear UKPC

RE: Parking charges received at <property>

This is not an appeal

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle <registration number>. I have been sent repeated letters (over 35 at last count) from you and your agents (Debt Recovery Plus and Zenith Collections) demanding payment of parking charges received while my vehicle was parked at <property>. I dispute and deny all charges and am not liable for paying them.

For the charges to be valid you must demonstrate that:

1) They are a genuine pre-estimate of loss caused by a breach of contract;
2) You have written authorisation in place with the land owner specifically allowing you to form contracts with drivers and to pursue unpaid charges through the courts in your own name.

If you can not demonstrate points 1 and 2 you must not send me any more letters demanding money from me for any previous or future parking charges received at <property>. Any further demands for money received by you, Debt Recovery Plus or Zenith Collections will be considered harassment and appropriate action will be taken where I will hold you (UKPC) and <property management company> jointly and severally liable.

Sincerely,

<name – printed not signed>

CC:

Debt Recovery Plus

<management company>

Zenith Collections

Umkomaas

I'm not sure how many 'outstanding' tickets you've got, but you're a bit of a bigger fish for them than Average Joe parker, with the potential for a bigger windfall. I don't think they're going to give up easily, regardless of what you write to them.

Where there are tickets that are still POPLA-able (new word folks!), then use that route as the one of preference with guaranteed outcome.

For those that are outside the scope of POPLA, then by all means try your letter, but if that fails your only options are pay up (but you wouldn't be here if you were contemplating that - would you?), or continue to ignore, unless or until you get a LBCCC or court papers, at which time come back for more advice. UKPC are not historically litigious.

Let us know how your letter goes.

Coupon-mad

You may want to read the Davey v UKPC 'Trespass' case (it was on CAG forum). His next step was to get an injunction, then he sued UKPC for trespass to reclaim the cost of the injunction. He won. They no longer ticket his own vehicle at his own home.

4consumerrights

@Tospig - IMHO - your initial letter to UKPC and DR etc needs to be stronger and more pointed setting out exactly what your claim is - in monetary terms eg per ticket issued and also mention that you will be seeking an injunction if necessary.

However I do not know exactly what your situation is:
Is it a rented flat or do you own the lease?
What does either your lease or rental agreement state?
Was the parking company in situ when you moved in.
Did you attend a meeting with the management company regarding UKPC or sign any paperwork regarding their "management".

All these are relevant points to consider when putting in a claim against them.
You are more then welcome to pm me if you like (I am already helping others re UKPC off forum)

tospig

Is it a rented flat or do you own the lease?
I own the flat I live in.

What does either your lease or rental agreement state?
Nothing to do with UKPC or a parking management company.

Was the parking company in situ when you moved in.
yes.

Did you attend a meeting with the management company regarding UKPC
or sign any paperwork regarding their "management".
I have met with the person from the management company assigned to our block and discussed the situation, and while doing so a UKPC attendant was outside so we got him involved too. It was all very amicable and I was explaining how their tickets are meaningless etc. but the manager didn't take any notice. Eventually she just walked away saying she had other things to do. This was in the summer of 2012. Since then I have just been stockpiling tickets

and I have not signed any paperwork regarding UKPC's management.

Coupon-mad

I drafted this although it looks a bit long. To be sent by ordinary post - free certificate of posting from the PO counter - to each party:




Dear UKPC, Debt Recovery Plus (and aliases of DRP including but not limited to Zenith and PCS) and < property management company >,

LETTER BEFORE CLAIM AND FORMAL WARNING TO CEASE AND DESIST WITH HARASSMENT

This is not an appeal

I am the leasehold owner of the property <property address> and this communication relates to vehicle <registration number(s), as many as you wish to 'exempt'> and to any other relevant vehicles I may notify <property management company> about in the future.

The purpose of this letter is to warn all recipients of potential court action and to clearly instruct UKPC and its agents to cease and desist with the following behaviour, which I consider serious, persistent and unwarranted harassment:

- placing 'Parking Charge Notices' (or other similarly named) tickets on or in the vicinity of the above vehicle
- placing 'Parking Charge Notices' (or other similarly named) tickets on or in the vicinity of any vehicle connected to me or my property at the above address
- sending letters or making any further contact with me or my household, regarding PCNs/tickets/charges relating to any vehicles connected to my property.
- threatening court action over the above matters.

I have been subjected over many months to the detriment of receiving repeated intimidating letters (over 35 at last count) from UKPC and your agents (Debt Recovery Plus and Zenith Collections) demanding payment of parking charges received while my vehicle was parked at my own property. I dispute and deny all charges and in good faith, so far in my own time, I have attempted to resolve this ongoing issue on many occasions. UKPC will be aware that I have attempted to address the issue by:

- speaking with UKPC and <property management company> about this groundless intimidation which I view as attempting to obtain money with menaces. My protests were ignored and dismissed and more letters followed.
- writing letters in response to the invoices and threats.
- challenging some of UKPC's unsolicited invoices, the latest of which was cancelled by UKPC after a minimal appeal one-liner from me, which suggests UKPC are aware they have no grounds to proceed.
- appealing to POPLA one recent ticket as a 'test case' so that UKPC understand that their charge is unwarranted. POPLA found in my favour.

By virtue of the fact that your charges at this car park have been found by the independent dispute resolution service for the private parking industry (POPLA) as 'not representing a genuine pre-estimate of loss' it follows that the PCNs are non-compliant and unenforceable. Further, I contended in my POPLA appeal that UKPC has no legal title in the land, nor a BPA-compliant landowner contract that assigns any right to pursue these charges through the courts in your own name. UKPC produced no evidence to the contrary which once again, renders the PCNs non-compliant and unenforceable. In other words, an unwarranted threat.

UKPC will also be familiar with the small claim case Davey v UKPC, (January 2013) where Mr Roger Davey was forced to take out an injunction against UKPC, who issued tickets on a private development in Winchester where Mr Davey lived, demanding £100.00 for each alleged 'breach'. Despite warnings from Mr Davey, UKPC continued to ticket his vehicles and you were served with an injunction and successfully sued for trespass, having to pay Mr Davey's substantial costs.

I find myself in a similar position and following the recent swiftly-cancelled 'ticket' I am certain that UKPC realise you have no lawful cause of action. As you are aware, I have neither accepted nor recognised any 'permit scheme' nor signed any paperwork regarding UKPC. Nor does my leasehold title deed of ownership mention anything to do with UKPC nor indeed does it mention any firm rejoicing in the occupational title of a 'parking management company'.

There is no legal contract between myself and UKPC and as a property owner I have a right to peaceful enjoyment for myself and my household and a reasonable expectation that my visitors will not be harassed and intimidated by a third party aggressive ticketer.

Having taken advice regarding this infuriating matter I am now issuing this, my formal warning, instructing you and your agents to cease and desist with the above behaviours. Your actions - and that of your agents DRP/Zenith/PCS - have become a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009).

I am copying in <property management company> to formally notify you that you are jointly and severally liable for the actions of your agents, in this case UKPC. I have no direct requirements for <property management company> to 'cease and desist' with their own normal contact with me, of course, but under the Practice Direction I am required to ensure you are now informed about your legal position due to the actions of your agents.

All Above Parties: Take Formal Note
If I have cause to contact UKPC or their agents or <property management company> about any 'parking ticket' issue from now onwards, including handling any letters, or any contact whatsoever about any PCN on any vehicle connected to my household or visiting my property, I may seek an injunction and may sue for damages for distress caused by the tort against persons (and crime) of harassment.

In addition, I will begin to invoice UKPC (with all parties being jointly and severally liable) on a monthly basis for my time in dealing with these matters after you receive this letter, and for the avoidance of doubt, at least from 20th January onwards. My time will be charged at the appropriate court rate which currently stands at £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of injunctions, formal notices, legal fees, court expenses and other disbursements, costs and interest. Damages for distress may be claimed following legal advice, at whatever sum a Judge deems warranted under the circumstances of the case.

By continuing to pursue me, you (all parties) agree to pay these costs on a monthly basis and in the event of any court claim. The only exempt (non-charged) contact will be one communication from each party acknowledging this Letter before Claim and one Formal Response or Undertaking to cancel all charges/cease all debt collection activity/remove my data from debt collection databases (as appropriate) from each party, to be served to me by the end of January 2014 only.

Yours faithfully,


< name – printed not signed>

CC: UKPC

Debt Recovery Plus

<management company>

Zenith Collections

spacey2012

Tort against persons, as in personal injury